Thursday, October 11, 2007

“Can I show my acceptance letter on TV, too?”

Going on TV, even if it is just the remnants of Cold Pizza, can be tough. And we know that ESPN probably baited these kids to talk trash about each school. Check out who rose above and represented his school with class and who looked a little awkward and uncomfortable.

Current ND students aren’t the only ones trying to put BC in its place. This ND blogger wrote not one, but two posts about why BC isn’t a rival.


downtown_resident said...

And ND fans say we're the boorish ones?

I'm not sure what's better, this video, or seeing the hypocritical crew at throw the ND kid under the bus for repeating everything they've been saying the entire week.

Vincent said...

The best part of this is all the bulletin board material this kid provided Jagz and BC on National TV. Holding up the shirt that said Backup College!! Hahahaha give us more reason to run the score up. I love it. These people just don't get it. They are irrelevent to College Football and they can't stand it.

Craig said...

It's one thing to be saying things like that within the ND community. It's quite another to present that face to the rest of the country. I didn't watch the program myself, but I hope most who did write to the editor of the Observer about it.

And the Observer folks are ten kinds of idiot for taking a game that BC could have overlooked (perceived rival or no) and giving them reasons to get hyped and beat us.

ClassO10 said...

Great job Jeff. Wait to get your pokes in at the Irish and also represent BC with the utmost class. That's why it's fun to work with you for The Heights.

Eagle in Brighton said...

Stay classy ND: if I was a ND alum, I'd be embarrassed by that bumbling arrogance.

Jeff: great job. Both articulate and assertive, you did BC proud.

Go Eagles.

Eagle in Brighton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eagle in Brighton said...

By the way, nothing is more ironic than all these Irish fans who can't bring themselves to acknowledge the matchup as a "rivalry" game, yet spend time, energy, and hot air attempting to conjure up slights at BC. If they really we're above the game, there wouldn't even be any discussion. The fact their is so much smack coming from the Notre Dame camp proves the game means much more than most Notre Dame fans would like to admit.

Btw, gotta echo Jeff's sentiment: as a current eagle that received personal undergraduate acceptances from both institutions, I too couldn't be happier with my choice and the top-flight degree I'll be receiving at the Heights.

downtown_resident said...

So in other words, Craig, you have no issue with the substance of the ND kid's statements, you just take exception to the fact that they were public.


In that case, I applaud the ND kid for allowing the world to see a (very vocal) minority of Irish fans the way they really are.

Eagle0407 said...

I love how our guy had every opportunity to bash ND and took the high road instead. I hope all the ND students wear their beautiful maroon "Backup College" shirts and the stands are an ocean of red and yellow. I can't even imagine how mortified we would all be if someone from BC went on national tv and called another school a safety school. This plus the yahoo piece on our exceptional graduation rate have us looking incredibly smart and classy right now.

Joe Grav said...

I don't have a problem with using 'safety school' as smack talk, but not when it's so stupidly untrue (we have a 2% difference in acceptance rate & more Eagles who got into ND than you can shake a stick at)

Eagle in Brighton said...

From (synopsis of this weekends game):

"After a two-year hiatus, Notre Dame and Boston College renew a storied rivalry in South Bend. The Irish are coming off their best game of the year, beating UCLA for their first win of the season. But it's the Eagles who are flying highest, coming into the game 6-0 behind Heisman hopeful QB Matt Ryan."

This isn't "rivalry" in terms of Duke/UNC, Sox/Yanks, that is, programs with commensurate traditions, but in terms of hype, fan interest and high emotions (as evident by bountiful comments from both camps), how can you not love this matchup?

Let a foolish minority of ND fans dilute themselves by belittling the game, but for the rest of us, a matchup- in fact, a rivalry- between the two most prominent Catholic Universities in the nation will be a treat.

Lets win with class this weekend.

flutie22phelan20 said...

It's probably true that up until about 10 or 15 years ago, a significant percentage of BC students either could not or did not get into Notre Dame.

That's not true any more. The way the admissions game is played, it's actually easier to get into ND from the East Coast than BC; the opposite is true for applicants from the Midwest. Also, speaking for myself with confidence that it applies to many others, I was looking for a mid-size school, with D-1 sports, near a big city. ND simply does not fit those criteria; BC does. And hence the application numbers.

Over the past 25 years, ND has slipped relative to BC in the class room and on the football field. I think most ND people actually welcome BC's emergence as a peer--hell, half my family went to ND, and we all get along very well. It's just the fraction of their fan base that clings to the past and mythologizes it as the they're annoying. And that kid was the perfect face for that part of the school.

John said...

Wake over FSU. BC has 2 game lead on rest of ACC except MD.

Craig said...

downtown, it's a time and place thing. There are times and places when a certain decorum is appropriate and expected, and times and places where it's not. On ndnation, it's not. In some ways, the site is a virtual pep rally. I don't agree with everything that's said there, but where it's a private discussion among mostly ND fans, it's not nearly as much of a concern to me as an idiot making a fool of himself (and, by extension, the rest of the ND community) on national television.

Eagle in Brighton said...

+1 flutie22phelan20:

Couldn't agree more.

Brendan said...

I just graduated from BC in May, and during my time in Chestnut Hill I was able to do some radio work for WZBC and got to know Jeff Weinstein well from road trips and everything. What a perfect outlet for him to show his class and what a perfect representative for BC to put on national television.

I do feel badly for the ND kid, and I agree with Bill, being on ESPN can't be easy. However, Jeff certainly gave BC the upper hand by taking the high road and avoiding the digs that Chris Khorey relied upon to carry his entire argument.

Notre Dame came into BC my freshman year with a true freshman, Brady Quinn, as their quarterback. At that point, in 2003, Notre Dame had not won a bowl game in 9 years (1994). You can now tag 3 years onto that streak, with a 4th looming on the horizon in 07. No one can argue with the tradition of Notre Dame. No school matches it. But for those Rick Pitino fans out there: "Rudy Reutigger is not walking through that door".
Maybe Clausen will be the guy in a few years, maybe not. Just rest easy tonight knowing that 5 years ago, ND signed a navy blue and gold #10, while TOB signed a gold and maroon #12.

Go Eagles.

Steve said...

If I was an ND fan, and I was going to boast about my school's academic prowess, I wouldn't do it on a site where the front page article includes the following sentence:

"Oh, and they've one [sic] four straight and stubbed ND's toe on they [sic] way to the championship in 1993."

Andrew said...

The funny thing about that ND blogger was how attached he is to ND's past. Times change. Rivalries can grown and sprout. Sure the Eagles haven't got the pedigree and tradition that ND and USC do, but obviously you can't do these things all in one year. Having a decade of winning teams is a good place to start.

John said...

ND blogger must be here w/us...those changes were made. now reads:

Oh, and they've won four straight and stubbed ND's toe on the way to the championship in 1993.

NDGradST said...

I have an interesting perspective on the ND-BC matchup. Prior to my going to grad school at ND I was a defacto BC fan (my best friend went there and so when I visited we would go to football games etc., my undergrad only had DI hockey). When watching the game from the BC side, their fans definitely treated the ND game differently. Looking from the other side of the fence, while it is a little humurous referring to BC as Fredo, it seems like that is more a defensive mechanism associated with the how much ND has lost to BC. In all reality to most ND fans, every game is a big one. The only time I have seen campus any noticeably different was for when USC was in town, but college gameday was on campus for that one.

I recognize some of the undergrads here can be pricks as evidence by that little worm on the video. Just know that not all Notre Dame fans are represented by such narrowmindedness and some actually have some class. We'll see how the game goes this year. GO IRISH.

Pat said...

In case anyone cares, the ND student realized he screwed up.

flutie22phelan20 said...

I'm pretty impressed by that kid's retraction/article. And I actually totally buy his story. Good work.

I will say, though, that we've learned quite the vocabulary this week from the 1% of crazy ND fans.

"Stubbing [a team's] toe": Beating them at home to prevent them from winning a national championship.

"South Bend": a place where there's so little to do that people spend their time making t-shirts to taunt a school that cannot be considered a rival.

"No history": as in, if your school is one of the Catholic schools that Notre Dame refused to play for 50 years (note what happened to all the other once strong Catholic programs during this time), then it has no history. This term is interchangeable with "no tradition."

"1984": is a long time ago. Things that happened that year should not be considered.

"1989": seems like yesterday.

Chris said...

As a recent ND graduate ('07), I feel I can still gauge student sentiment toward Boston College, and I have a hard time NOT calling it a rivalry.

The kids know each other, have many mutual ties, friends, etc in common. BC may not have the history of ND, but you have to call them a peer. It's 2007, guys. I get geared up the most for USC, but BC has a very strong #2 to me. I have fun getting pumped up for it, especially with my background in Catholic schools and the rivalries born in grade school and peaking in high school. I have friends from my childhood days who went to both ND and BC. It's different, to me, than a Michigan.

When you look at ND-BC, it's a combination of things, shared history of students, Catholicism, just a good old fashioned series. In fact, the Catholic angle and fact that many kids grew up with each other could make this a Catholic equivalent of Texas- OU or any other close rivalry.

I feel that most of the "BC IS NOT, REPEAT, NOT OUR RIVAL" stems from older alums who, in their time, perhaps witnessed a definite difference in ND and BC students. But times have changed, and you can't deny that this is something special and has a great potential to develop into something greater.

I was embarrassed by the representative of ND on that formerly Cold Pizza show, but perhaps rightfully so-- that newspaper is a terrible excuse for journalism. Typos and rose-tinted glasses are quite common.

But above all, I was disappointed that this kid probably holds the negative view toward BC not in a fun, rivalry-flavored attitude (where it's a rivalry, we say things, but at the end of the day, we respect you), but instead honestly and genuinely believes what he says.

I may pop off with a Backup College, or some other anti-BC cheer during the game weekend, but at the end of the day, I know that BC is a fine school and we should all be having fun with this.

Eagle in Brighton said...

I've actually been moderately impressed with the rational ND opinions I've encountered in the lead up to the game: it seems a good 80% of Irish fans are articulate and respectful, and though they are practical in their assessment of the historical traditions of both teams, they value the rivalry between two top-notch Catholic schools that have converged academically and athletically over the past two decades.

Unfortunately, it is that ignorant 20% that seems to get all the play, irrationally holding onto past glories and perceptions.

The ESPN bit, and genuine retraction, perfectly encapsulates this 2nd type of Irish fan being brought down to reason (and rationality).

Can't wait for Saturday. Lets win with class Eagles.

Willis said...


Thank you for a rational, well thought out response to all the negative press/blogging that's been floated out there. It's a breath of fresh air, and much appreciated.

NDWillow said...

My two brothers went to BC, but I, as I'm almost embarrassed to admit after watching this clip and reading NDNation, graduated from ND. Obviously, because of the connection to ND and BC, this is a huge and fun game for my family. However, I also think it is a great game for the two schools, and I wish the series wasn't set for termination. The only two Catholic schools that play Division I football (or Bowl Subdivision football or whatever they're calling it these days) should play every year. I don't care if it is a "rivalry" or not, which is a stupid discussion anyway. It is an interesting and fun game that should happen every year.

However, the belief that ND and BC should play every year is obviously not one that is held by most ND alums/students. There are several reasons given for this, all of which are garbage:

-- Argument: ND doesn't have room for BC because it is "maintaining its independence" by committing to schedule three Big East teams every year. Response: Ridiculous, on several levels. First, it is ridiculous to suggest that ND's closer affiliation with a conference (by guaranteeing the conference members three games a year) is actually strengthening ND's independence. Second, there is room for BC if ND wanted to keep them. Why does ND need to play Stanford every year? ND/BC has much more appeal than ND/Stanford even for the most obnoxious anti-BC ND fan.

-- Argument: BC's players ripped up the turf and trashed the locker room at ND Stadium, and BC's fans have otherwise been rude to us. Response: If you're worried about opposing fans being rude, then you should probably stop playing college football. In my experience, there are a minority of fans at every school who are rude. As for pulling turf off the field, have you ever seen the turf at ND Stadium? It gets incredibly (and embarrassingly) ripped up during every game. Plus, let's not blame 18-22 year old kids for getting a little over-excited after a big win (back when beating ND was a big win). After all, MSU planted the flag and we're planning on playing them pretty much every year for the foreseeable future. Finally, the infamous locker room incident. While I've never seen an actual report of what happened, it is my understanding that BC paid for the damage. Should this have happened? No. Does it mean the series should be discontinued? No.

-- Argument: BC has no relevant football history, and thus we shouldn't justify BC's football existence by playing them. Response: If ND doesn't want to play teams without a "football history," then why did we just agree to play a game against each member of a conference that includes the storied football histories of UConn, Cincinnati, and South Florida? Hell, South Florida has only had a team for 10 years. Plus, don't forget about the season opener next year against the feared football powerhouse of San Diego State. Another ridiculous argument.

-- Argument: BC is our backup school or ND's "little brother." Response: This is actually what I wanted to address in my comment, even though it took me a long time to get here. Any person who says this out loud, let alone justifies the decision not to play a football game on it, should be immediately punched in the face. While most ND fans don't want to play BC, I believe that it is only a small (but vocal) minority who do not want to play BC because of this reason. Instead, the vast majority of ND fans view BC much the same way as they view ND: an excellent Catholic institution. Please don't lump the majority of ND fans in with the dweeb in this video or the band geeks at NDNation (I love the band, but let's be honest, they're geeks).

Good luck this weekend. I'll be there with my entire family. I hope it stays close, but I see this turning into a huge BC victory. 37-3 BC sounds about right.

Craig said...

NDWillow, the same ND fans who don't want to continue to play BC are also righteously pissed off at Kevin White for committing to play the likes of USF and Cincinatti -- unlike BC, who has a long and mediocre football tradition, those schools have no football tradition at all.

Personally, I don't feel that strongly about it. I'm not a fan of dumbing down our schedule, and I think BC would fit very nicely into the middle level of teams: the ones that aren't traditional superpowers*, but can be expected to be anywhere from middling to pretty good in a given year. I don't care one way or the other about it turning into a rivalry, but I'm a little concerned about the rampant reports of boorish behavior by BC fans; if the bad behavior is too extreme, I could see that justifying discontinuation of the series.

* Teams with a big national name or that have won multiple national championships. We schedule two perennially in Southern Cal and Michigan, and rotate at least one more in (most of us would like to see two, but the silly 7-4-1 schedule will probably only get us one). By any objective measure, BC is not currently in this group. They can and should aspire to be, but are at least a decade of excellent play away.

Eagle in Brighton said...

@ Craig:

Oh, you almost got me mixed up, when I read "mediocre" football I couldn't help but think you were speaking reflexively about the past two decades of ND irrelevance...

You're all over the place man: this whole post began as a response to boorish Irish behavior on national television. I don't know what glass house you're living in, but ultimately it's just a moot point considering this behavior is present in both fan bases.

If this actually becomes justification for terminating this Catholic series, considered yourself snookered: as this would just be a red herring for more nefarious motivations on ND's part.

Christopher said...

I'm a current ND student and I just want to all to please believe me when I say that the kid who spoke on ESPN is not indicative of the majority of the students. My 4 roommates and I watched that show and the only thing we could think was how arrogant and stupid he made us look. We were and are embarrassed by his words.

I respect BC as a school and I have friends who go there. I do think it is a rivalry - a very unhealthy one. What should be built on mutual respect for two schools that do things the right way (graduate players, high academic standards, etc) has devolved into something much, much less than that.

No one is really to blame, as both parties have made mistakes. BC teams have celebrated the wrong way after victories, and ND fans have been openly condescending towards BC.

I hate to say it, but I can't wait for this series to end in 2010. I would enjoy playing BC, except I don't think it's healthy for either school at this point. It's a damn shame.

Anyways, I hope it's a good game on Saturday. Best of luck then, and for the rest of the year.

Christopher said...

Sorry, typo. Should you "I just want you all to..."

Christopher said...

Wow, another one. Sorry for the multiple posts. "SHOULD READ."

This is going well....

Loyal said...

Yes, that kid on ESPN is a moron. There are morons at ND, for sure. Most of us aren't like that. But there are reasons for the dismissive stance toward BC, the biggest being the absurd way your fans have acted toward our fans/teams/school in the past. Trashing our locker room after a win, pelting people with batteries, and now tossing trash and food at our band in the stands at ND Stadium. No, the nerdy kid from the Observer wasn't classy. But I'd say chucking food, trash and batteries is worse. The only difference is that he wasn't anonymous like most of your fans...A letter from a BC student to the ND Observer: Dear Notre Dame Marching Band,

As a Boston College student and so-called "Superfan," I would like to take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of Superfans everywhere to you, the band members, who were rudely showered with trash and food while playing in the stands during the second half of Saturday's game. I was sitting adjacent to the student section and was absolutely appalled by the classless actions of my fellow students. Again, I apologize to all the marching band members, fans, and everyone in attendance who was witness to this poor behavior.

Notre Dame football fans, for the majority of the time I was on your campus, you were welcoming and acted respectfully to me and my Boston College brethren, and your passion for the game is unflinching. I hope that as my Eagles continue to enjoy success, that we will conduct ourselves more like champions in the future.

Thank you for having us at your fine institution and I hope for a great game next year at The Heights.

Chad Johnson


Boston College

Jerry Gene said...

Nice post! Can’t wait for the next one. Keep stuff like this coming.

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