I'll have my grades and second viewing thoughts late on Sunday.
Sunday, November 04, 2007
Rain washes away the magic
You can only pull it out of the fire so many times. Tough loss. When your best players (and not just Ryan) have an uneven day you cannot beat a talented team like FSU. The National Championship is obviously gone and the Heisman looks like real long shot but there is still the ACC Championship. BC needs to regroup and beat Maryland next week.
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23 comments:
Re-post from In-game comments:
Like my Grandpappy told the Nazis during WWII, "Nuts".
This game sort of reminded me of Operation: Market Garden (yes, I am that old). We had a great game plan, and at times things looked spectacular, but then one thing went wrong, then another and then another. Soon we were mired in mediocrity the way the British 30th Corps got stuck on the road to Holland. And then when we least expected it, we ran into an SS Panzer division instead of the 398th Wermacht mantenance division.
Just so there's no sour grapes, Hats off to FSU. I hate you, but you guys played a hell of a game, especially on D. The refs could have been better, but they were not nearly as bad as the VT or ND games, so I won't dwell on that sore loser topic. The thing is, if FSU had played like this all season (mistake free for the most part), I think they'd be undefeated. How come you guys can only play good against BC?
One thing to note, the FSU fumble on the punt return was recovered by BC, but the refs decided to wait until 10,000 people piled on so they could screw up the call. Goood job FSU not giving up, BC guys need to hit the weight room for some more curls.
Okay, moving forward, now that all those monkeys are off our backs (NC, Heisman), we can concentrate on winning an ACC title, or at least an Atlantic Division title. Maryland does not look that scary, but after tonight, there are no gimmies. Every game is a grudge match, and I only hope that the bitterness of this loss puts enough fire in the boys to really hammer the Terps, the Tigers and especially the 'Canes.
WE ARE BC!
I disagree. I think the game-plan was terrible. Spaz absolutely gave Weatherford those 10-20 patterns in the middle of the field, especially after Dunbar went out. No adjustment. The FSU receivers were open in the middle of the field more often than not. And offensively, the best way to keep the linebackers and safeties close to the line of scrimmage (ie, out of coverage) is to run the ball. Logan and Jags never really tried to run the ball. It's real tough to pass against seven guys committed to coverage. Honestly, I really have a hard time buying that we got thoroughly out-played by Florida State. I really feel like our coaches--for the first time this year--did not put our players in a position to win the game.
Well, I hate to be provocative here, but perhaps TOB was right when he stated BC can only go so far due to high academic standards and weak fan support. Case in point: he's here 10 years and cannot beat Miami once. He goes to NC State and knocks them off in the first year.
It's way too early to criticize the coaches. I do think they could have done better by leaving a back in to pick up the blitz against Va Tech and I would have liked to see the defense blitz more against Va Tech (I did not see last night's game). However, there are downsides to both approaches. If you leave a back for blitz pick-up, that is one less receiver you can send out. If you blitz on defense, you can get burned. Plus, we just don't have the speed on the ends to get to the QB. Keep in mind, Jags is a first-year coach. There is no way you can expect him to be at the level of Beamer and Bowden. If he is getting out-coached, then chalk it up to lessons learned. I'm more concerned with his recruiting than I am with his game-day coaching as he does not seem to be pulling in the big-time players with the exception of Haden.
@ eagleinexile -
You're Grandpappy was Gen. McAuliffe? Impressive.
In response to your comments, you're right - FSU played great football. Their athleticism really shined last night, and they executed well - if they executed like that all season, they'd be a top 12 team right now.
Some of the ref calls were iffy - the first FSU TD seemed like it bounced off the ground, but I can see how they wouldn't overturn it. In that last drive, there was an egregious non-call on an interference (even the booth was amazed at that one) and a blow to Ryan's head - same play. I can see missing one of those, but both...?
We did recover that fumble, but I think it was Ayers on it - the refs took way too long getting to it, we had 4 players there to their 1 at first, and 3 of our guys didn't get in the pile (Silva especially) because they saw we had it. But, I don't expect a punter to hold a ball away from regular players.
Who knows what will happen this season going foward - we need to win out to get the Orange bowl, but I think the NC and Heisman may still be in the picture - they won't be easy, and we'll need some flukey stuff, but you never know. LSU has won quite a few games in the last minute, FSU can win out if they keep playing like that (thus making the loss more acceptable), Oregon still has some tough games, OSU is headed to the big house...and this year is just crazy enough to have all that happen. But, we can focus on the games in front of us - ACC championship was the original goal this season, and we are still in the drivers seat to get there. Time to put our nose to the grindstone and get there.
@ bcnorcal07 -
Gameplan wasn't terrible - Dunbar going down was brutal - I think at least 2 or 3 of their 10 yd crossing routes would not have happened if he was in there. Ryans recievers were dropping balls (I think AC had 3 that should've definately been caught), and he made some poor decisions. We didn't get outplayed per se, but when you have the athletes they have who put in the best game of their season (and hats off to Weatherford and the FSU OLine) it makes it tough.
@ eagleboston -
I don't believe that TOB crap for a second. Yes, he beat Miami with NCSt, but that was their first 1A win this year, no? The biggest problem under TOB was Bible (3rd & 14? Draw.) If you didn't see last night, then I'm not sure you can really comment on this - not trying to be a jerk, just saying. And the recruiting will come - I don't really care about what rankings Rivals and Scouts give HS players. Kiwi wasn't sought after in HS, Trueblood had to drag him along - he became a 1st round draft pick. ND gets some of the best recruits in the country - how is that working out? Jagz is an exciting coach, and he has the attitude that we can go places - TOB was the master of "this school can't win more than 9 or 10." If you're a 17 year old, who would you listen to? Not to mention the press that we're getting now, whereas BC wasn't seen as a football school in the past, we've been in the top of the ACC since joining - that is only helping.
Okay, rant done.
WTF!? When you don't run the ball at least 20 times, you are going to lose. That was a bush league game plan.
It's not Logan's fault at all. It is Spaz's fault for not blitzing a mediocre QB. He gave Weatherford all day to throw like he did with Glennon and both QBs picked BC apart. It did not matter if Dunbar was in the lineup or not; Va Tech completed just as many passes over the middle. By playing that idiotic drop zone defense, there is no rush giving the QB all the time in the world to pass. Receivers will always find seams or open spaces in a zone and just sit there. Further, if they can't get open at first, they eventually will because it's pretty much impossible to cover a guy for 7 seconds. Further, the drop zone defense clears the middle of the field. The 3-4 rushers rush, and the linebackers drop 10 or so yards leaving the middle wide open for a TE or RB (how many receptions did the FSU RB get this way?). Idiotic playcalling by Spaz. Absolutely no adjustment from the Va Tech game. Absolutely no in-game adjustment when his defense did not work. The drop zone has not worked the entire season against the pass, what made him think it would work yesterday? What a terrible coach.
Sammie: nice of you to show up after the very first loss. I removed your post because I've told you about the all caps stuff. And your offbase complaints are not surprising either.
I agree with just about everything Michael said.
De-Cody Fagg is 6ft 3 Greg Carr is 6ft 6 and both are athletic as all hell .... Dejuan Tribble is 5ft 9 Taji Morris is 5 ft 9 Jamie Silva is 5 ft 11. There was a huge mismatch and for the most part we still were able to contain them, just not as much as we needed to and Jo-Lohn going down was killer. Toal, Raji, Poles, and Jo-Lohn all out and we still were competitive.
This is a solid FSU team albeit a schizophrenic one. They played an exceptional game (0 turnovers). Were they beatable? Yes. I witnessed it with my own eyes in Tallahassee last year. Did BC play well enough to win? Not really.
We caught a break with Wake going down. We need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and take care of business down the stretch.
I am proud of this team. I am proud of the exposure our school has gotten. I am proud to be a BC alum.
I am not about to throw Ryan, a top 10 NFL pick, under the bus for a mediocre performance nor am I going to yearn for the days of TOB. That is MADNESS. We will get our crack at Miami Nov 24th.
Michael, I agree with you about the rating services and there is no question, they were off about Kiwi. But, to compete with Va Tech and Florida State year after year, you need to start bringing in some speed. Jags himself said, "It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jim's and Joe's." Everyone keeps referring to Notre Dame. They have had Top 5 recruiting classes the past 3 years. However, the oldest of these classes are only sophomores. Another year or two and that talent will probably materialize. I caution anyone who wants to write off Notre Dame. They damn near caught us this year and we have to play them 3 more times.
I guess my point earlier was, is it realistic to expect BC to get beyond 9 or 10 wins and go to the BCS? We're a small northeast school in an area where people can recite the utility outfielder for the Red Sox, but have no idea who Matt Ryan is. I think we have to be content that an average year is 8-9 wins and every 4-5 years we have a shot at winning the ACC. And there is nothing wrong with that. Dozens of schools would kill for that level of achievement. I know everyone hates TOB, but I remember the Henning era and I will always be grateful that he at least got us the 8 or 9 wins each year.
It's not the fact that FSU's WRs were taller than BC's DBs. That played no factor at all. The problem was that FSUs three receivers got open every single play against 7-8 defenders in pass coverage. That is what also happened against Va Tech. The way to stop the open seams and holes that the zone coverage creates is to play more man defense. The way to stop Weatherford from picking apart the BC defense was to blitz him. When BC blitzed, yet again they were able to force him from the pocket and make a bad throw (like against Glennon). Weatherford would not have had enough time to wait for his receivers to get down field and then find the open seam.
Eagleboston
I don't think that anyone is saying that TOB did not do a great job here. Simply put 8-9 wins a season every year is great. We won about 6-7 games we were supposed to win, lost 2-3 games we were supposed to lose, won 1-2 game we had no business winning, and always lost 2-3 games that we had no business losing and would want to kick our own heads in (see Syracuse in 04 or Miami in 06) However, he never took us to the next level and he did not believe in BC.
We are building teams here the right way. We take in a different kind of athlete and get the pleasure of watching them develop into Pro caliber and we graduate our players. How can anyone not envy that type of program? We may not make it to the BCS title game unless a playoff is put in. However there is a lot to be proud of here. We do big things with the talent that we have and we do it in a competitive conference with lots of good schools. The grass is not greener anywhere else.
All in all, last night was a tough loss, but in no way is "the sky falling." Not to mimic Jags verbatim, but we still are in great position to compete for the ACC title game, and possibly, a BCS berth. And at the end of the day, that would be a tremendous, I repeat, a tremendous ending to a terrific season.
Just because the BCS title game, or the Heisman, may be be out of reach, this in no way diminishes the outstanding work thus far put in by Jags and the team.
Three huge games remain, and I couldn't be prouder of the team. With the hype machine/inflated expectations subsided + time for our defense to heal, I am still very optimistic about the homestretch- the 4th quarter of this 2007 campaign.
TotheHeights: Define what you mean by "the next level." Are you referring to going to a major bowl? Bicknell only did that once ('84 Cotton Bowl) and Coughlin never did get us to a major. Thus, as I see it, TOB did about what prior BC coaches did. Perhaps that is our level and we cannot hit "the next level." Maybe we don't want to get to the next level because to do so, you may have to compromise academic standards and bring in players that are talented but cannot graduate (just look at the graduation rates of the elite schools...none are above 70%).
Look, if we finish this season 10-2 or even 9-3, I think that constitutes a good season. It won't take us to the "next level," but to achieve that in a year where you lose Raji, Toal and Poles, and with a first-year coach is impressive. We should all be happy with that and stop lamenting the "next level" as I honestly don't think we are going to hit that any year soon unless all the stars align properly.
The "next level" is us making it to a relevant bowl and winning it.
The ACC CG would be a great step. The orange bowl would put us where we want to be. I do not think that is out of reach because of our academic standards. I do not want to cap our season and say that we can only be an 8-4 team and we only belong in San Fran, Boise, or Charlotte.
As past seasons have shown 10-2 is good enough for ACC Championship game.
@ eagleboston, totheheights
I think I line up more with ToTheHeights on this. I understand what you're saying about ND's youth Eagleboston, but a lot of the recruits from Weiss's first year are Juniors now - I don't think he redshirted all of them, if I remember correctly he wanted "his" guys in as soon as he got there.
I also think, for us, the "next level" is competeing for the ACC CG every year. Our currently level is about 9 regular season wins, 2-3 losses, and a win in a midlevel bowl. FSU, VT, Miami are not what they used to be, nor is GT or Clemson. Wake is a smaller school than we are, and they manage to put pretty good teams on the field each and every year.
The SEC is the strongest conference right now - I'm not sure I can take anyone seriously who says otherwise. This year, the Pac-10 is close to their level, but still second best, IMHO. The other four BCS conferences are very fluid in ranking - I would argue over the past few years (this year is definately an oddity) the ACC has been in the top 2 or 3 CFB conferences. Thus, winning (or at least being relevant to) the ACC title puts us in the BCS/NC conversations, and that is where we need to, can, and should be.
Great points Michael: couldn't agree more with that interpretation of BC's "next step."
Okay, so much finger pointing to digest. It's hard to keep track of who said what, so I'll try to hit the major issues.
Game play: FSU defense played exceptionally well. BC Offense played good, as I am sure our host here will see in the re-watch, but you cannot turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win. That being said, BC defense played great. Only down 7-0 at the half when we left at least 10 points on the field and gave them a short field twice is pretty inspiring play. BC lived by the big play (at least 4, 40+ yd passes) whereas FSU had to grind it out. The D's gameplan was make to FSU play mistake free football with 10-15 play drives. Normally, Weatherford would have gift wrapped the INTs for us, but last night he played very well. Bottom line, dropped passes, turnovers, penalties on 1st and goal (many times), and a punter who hits 61 and 65 (FSU) and you're probably looking at a loss. Could BC have run the ball more? Maybe, but FSU's D-line was pretty good. I think if the first few carries had yielded more than 2 yds, they might have gone back to it. FSU controlled the clock, which was their gameplan, ours was Matt Ryan, and it almost worked despite some very sloppy play and a killer injury (sidenote, check out the replay on Dunbar's injury, looks like a cheapshot by an FSU lineman, classic Bowden, if can't beat 'em, hurt 'em).
Officiating: Not great, but above average for the ACC (worst refs in FB). If you don't believe me about the ACC refs being not talented, take a look at the ND v. Navy game and then think back to our game in South Bend, night and day. The NO-call on the pass intereference at the end was egregious and may have impacted our final drive, but that's life in the ACC.
TOB: TOB said what he said about BC because of years of frustrating Bowl assignments. These lesser bowls lost him recruits to places like VT, GT and Clemson (where you can go 8-4 and go to the Gator Bowl because its a drive). There is a double standard with BC because we're small and far away. Besides, once TOB's kid(s) had received a BC education (for free), not much incentive to stick around (also he has no loyalty, unfortunate for a marine) He definitely did not want the kids to get an NC State education, UVA would have been okay, but that job was taken. So, he goes south because he can go 8-4 there and maybe get into the Peach Bowl, make more money and be closer to his beach house. They can have him. Other coaches have made a "jump" from a school where they had turned the place around to a so called "better" environment school (Gary Barnett, Rick Neuhisel, Dan Hawkins, Ty Willingham, Franchione, Walt Harris) only to have it blow up in their faces, (esp. Harris). So, I think and hope that it will blow up in TOB's and he'll get booted down into C-USA or be an OC again, very Amato-esque.
Okay, that's about all I can say, except, GO EAGLES, beat those Turtles, Terps, Tortoises, Snappers or Terrapins, or whatever they are!
I try not to censor comments, but can we stear clear of what BC can be and Jags vs TOB for a bit. There is still a ton of football to play. We need to keep perspective. Let's judge Jags and the next level stuff when the seaosn is over. I encourage you to talk about this game and BC vs FSU.
Well, if we can compete for the ACC Championship every year, I'll be tickeled pink. I'm thinking Clemson, Florida State, Maryland,NC State and Wake share the same goals so something has to give
Good point. We're debating stuff that has no answer. Let's talk about Maryland. They are on a 3 game losing streak, but they did beat Rutgers and Georgia Tech. They also hung close with Wake, Virginia and and North Carolina. They have been riddled with injuries and I think they are a tough team when at full strength. Not sure what the injury situation will be against BC, but it sounds like we have some injury issues also.
I think we are clearly the better team, so to lose this game would be a huge WTF, but I think we are going to be so mad about losing to FSU that the Terps are going to bear the brunt of BC's frustration.
I did not see last night's game, but three things stuck out from the stat sheet. 1) We had 4 turnovers. You can't win in the ACC with that many gimmee's to the other team. 2) Our defense gave up 4 plays over 20 yards. Too many big plays. 3)We had complete inability to run the ball. When your QB is the leading rusher, you have problems. Boy what I would give to have Mike Cloud or Derrick Knight on this team.
We will have to do better in all of these areas to beat Maryland, and I think we notch our 9th win next week.
Let's see - many contributors were worried about the opinions of sports commentators and the national championship, etc. before the Florida State Game.
Obviously Maryland is no threat - so let's look ahead to Jacksonville and a rematch with VT.
Rivals.com is reporting Mike Goodman (4 star OL prospect) just committed to BC.
I know, I know this is rivals (which is a questionable source), and I know high school prospect rankings are a crap shoot, but if this commitment holds up, this is as legitimate a signing as Haden.
Great for the team, great for Jags, great for Goodman.
Welcome to the Heights Mike.
@Big Jack:
Nothing is a sure thing these days, whether it is Maryland, Clemson, or Miami. I gotta agree with you, lets save BCS talk for down the road.
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