Saturday, November 28, 2009

Winning is what matters

Congratulations to the seniors and Spaz. We didn't win the division, but 5-3 is an accomplishment.

As for the game, it was much closer than it had to be. I grew frustrated with the redzone play calling and also thought we screwed up the clock management/prevent defense...again. Regardless, we won...again. Now we just have to wait for our bowl news next week.

I will be traveling Sunday so I won't have the second viewing thoughts and grades until late Monday.


eagleinexile said...

Moved from In-game comments:

Okay, let's all take a deep breath and enjoy the fact that we are complaining about an 8-4 season.

A season that started with a new head coach, no QB, the loss of two D-Line All Americans, and our best player being struck by cancer!

Are you kidding me? We had to overcome all that and we still went 8-4? That's pretty damn good. I thought they were going to be 6-6 this year, with a little luck 7-5 or a little bad luck 5-7.

We caught a little good luck against WF and some bad luck (Montel Fumble) against ND. You could make a case that we should be sitting 9-3 right now if we don't blow the ND game, but we did.

I thought we would lose to everyone we did lose to plus FSU and then I thought we would lose to one of the three stooges (WF, NCState or Maryland). I use the term stooge lovingly.

That being said, BC has not finished lower than 2nd in the division with two 1st place finishes. Also, they have never had a league record worse than 5-3. The team's sustained success says a lot about the players and coaches and maybe to a very small degree some of us fans.

The ACC's poor performance by the favored teams today is nothing unusual on rivalry Saturday. Clemson got caught napping on the road, and UNC ran into a bloodbath on the road.

The ACC is ESPN's whipping boy when it comes to league strength, but how did other leagues fare this weekend? let's take a look:

#12 Ok State shutout by unranked Oklahoma 27-0, now that's ugly, and they were thinking BCS, Not!

#25 Ole Miss gets Croomed by unranked Miss State, 41-27, ouch! (Sly is sitting at home smiling).

#9 Pitt loses a tough one to unranked WVU, 19-16.

Texas vs. A&M was closer than it should have been, and so was 'Bama/Auburn.

And the grand daddy of them all:

South Dakota State blows a 48-27 lead by allowing 34 points in the 4th quarter to Montana in the FCS 1st round Playoff.

And the ACC is the weak league? I think not, it's rivalry Saturday / playoff time, shit happens, that's why we watch. If the favorites always won, we probably would not watch as much and their would be no gambling.

Go BC and for tonight, go Stanford!

CT said...

um, yeah, well said...but, ah, you lost me w/ the "strong acc" argument.

you cited in-conference games.

clemson and ga tech both lost. our champ. reps lost to middling sec teams. i don't care that unc lost.

any way you cut it, that's bad.

the league did itself no favors today, except build anticipation for bball season.

but, the first half of your post...i'm witcha'.

you're not typing from elba, are you?

Dan said...

Well for those on the Fire Tranquill bandwagon, it looks like there's gonna be an Offensive Guru on the market after tonight.

mod34b said...

No question the SEC schooled the ACC today and is the better conference (what a shock! :~) )

Today's scores/stats:

Clemson 17 (256 total yards)
South Carolina 34 (391 total yards)

Florida St. 10 (282 total yards)
Florida 37 (541 total yards)

Georgia 30 (415 total yards)
Georgia Tech 24 (340 total yards)

ACC 878 yards
SEC 1,347 yards

On another note, I did take perverse pleasure in seeing ND bite the dust again!

eagleinexile said...


Yeah, Gtech really f'ed me on that one. That's a head case game for the ramblin' reck, they always find a way to lose to the Uggas.

My point was really that top teams in all leagues seem to go down on this weekend, and the ACC was no different, but the SEC really kicked the ACC's ass today, GT, Clemson and FSU all played badly.

Bring on the Cardinal! It'd be nice to play in a game with some buzz, and this Gerhart kid would provide it, plus beating Cal would not garner any attention.

If only we had beaten those darn Domers, they'd be ineligible. We probably only need another decade of them losing in order to get the "notre dame cheating rule" removed from the BCS an get the NCAA to grow a pair and force them into a conference and mediocrity (of course they are already mediocre on the field). But hey, at least the NCAA has removed all of those offensive mascots, I can finally enjoy a game without being offended!

eagleinexile said...

Also, no longer typing from Elba, using both hands too.

I've been stuck on the damned Left coast for forever, too valuable to the company, I guess.

Adam M. said...

I think people need to put this season in perspective and realize that 8 wins is a huge accomplishment for this team. Even the most optimistic fans likely thought 8 wins was the best we'd do (probably including the bowl game). Most people even thought we wouldn't finish any better than 3rd in the Atlantic. This team is EXTREMELY young, and should only get better. I'd be very disappointed if we aren't in the ACC Championship Game next season, considering how close we were this year in a rebuilding season (even if the ACC is pretty weak).
On another note, I can't believe the people on the other board that were saying we're the worst 8-win team in America. Didn't we kick the crap out of a 10-win Central Michigan team? Are you forgetting that there are conferences such as the WAC, Mountain West, C-USA, the MAC, and the Sun Belt that all have crappy 8-win teams out there? And then people get mad when they are called out on saying something that ridiculous and try to justify it. What a joke. Lighten up people.

CT said...

that's a perfect example, adam...central michigan finished, what, 10-2? they lost to both "big boy" teams they played--arizona and us. we know how much better we were than the chippies.

comparing a mid-major 8 or 9 win team to bc and the rest of our ilk is, i think, absurd. boise state's defense is small and bad. i'd actually like them to play a big boy in a bowl game to end the charade.

there is an exception.


CT said...

by the way, any word on the safety that committed on friday?

BCNorCal07 said...

CT: are you talking about Sean Sylvia? He's a post-grad safety who went to high school in Dartmouth, MA. Scouts Inc doesn't even give him one star, though, and has no evaluation. I'm not dismissing him, but I don't anything more about him.

Eagle1 said...

Given the expectations, I'm happy with our record this year. That said, yesterday was a shit-show. Shinskie continues to make bad decisions, the O-Line is not dominating as all BC lines should, and our recieving corps is below average. We're going to need to get a lot better.

Bravesbill said...

Adam, Central Michigan is a 10 win team, not an 8 win team. East Carolina, UCF, and Rutgers would be the only 8 win teams worse than BC. Northwestern is a toss up. And if you guys are complaining about non-quality wins, who exactly has BC beaten this year? Not much. Central Michigan might be the best team BC beat. Plus, BC played horrible teams way too closely. A case can be made that BC is ONE of the worst 8 win teams in the country, because they are. If they play Stanford in the Emerald Bowl (like they are predicted to), the BC "charade" will stop as well. Stanford will absolutely kill them.

With that said, BC did exceed expectations this year and had a pretty successful year. For the most part, they beat the teams they should have beaten (outside of ND), and lost to the teams they should have lost to. That is not too shabby in a rebuilding year. If BC had better coaching, they could have won another 2 games or so (ND, UNC).

mod34b said...

8 wins...nice...9 wins by beating ND would have been nice too.

I think Larmond's play yesterday captured the season: He unexpectedly turned a seemingly tough play into a 66 yard score; he (again) dropped an important and catchable ball due to lack of focus. But he redeemed himself and the team by leaping for a really tough onside kick and hanging on while getting mashed. Good job CL! The ups and downs of C Larmond; the ups and downs of BC!!

Shinskie actually compelted 60 pct of his passess. His NCAA QB rating for the game was 158 (NFL = 108). Shakey start, but he did do pretty well once he settled in. Hope he improves though for next year. He really needs to grow from this freshman year. I have my doubts if he can.

Adam M. good comments about the doom and gloomers. Really downer guys who are most comfortable with the "BC sucks" "we are not really good" type comments, and thet are downright gleeful with "i told you so" when BC does stumble. They have already started ragging on the basketball team. Some people round here think they complain so much due to devotion to BC. I think not. Losers is a more apt description.

mod34b said...

While i was typing up my last post, I did not notice that one of the princes of darkness, Bravesbill was taking a dump on BC.

BC is a charade according to B Bill.

BC is one of the worst 8 win teams according to BBill and EagleBoston. BC is not a capable football team to EBoston

What a joke.

Bravebill and Eagleboston --

I see that despite the victory last night, the basketball team is not meeting expectations. This will provide you both an opportunity to make predictions of doom and gloom and then at the end of the season you can say 'I told you so.' You can dis on the players, the coach, the recruiting and the instition of BC itself. You can also discuss the folly of BC being in the ACC. The "charade" that you really think BC sports is.

It should be a hell of a winter for you two...!

Enjoy, this is going to be quite hoop season for you guys...are you excited?

mod34b said...

“Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”

T. Roosevelt

Bravesbill said...

Uh, Mod, if you can read, I was being sarcastic with the charade comment. CT commented that many mid majors have good records because they do not play anybody. He said he wanted them to go to a good bowl so their charade can end. All I mentioned was how BC beat really nobody this year. So under CT's analysis, BC must also be a charade as well. Hence the quotation marks. And for all your "points," you never really back up your claims with any solid information or analysis. It's purely a bunch of assertions on your part. Nowhere in your incoherent rambling did you ever come close to naming other 8 win teams that were worse than BC (like I even did). I criticize BC a lot because I am sick and tired of the endless stream of mediocrity. Even with their great basketball teams this decade, they never made it past the second round of the tourney. Even with the good football teams they had this decade, they never made it to a BCS game (BC choked away more than a few opportunities there). I want BC to strive to be a great team (both basketball and football) and not settle for mediocrity. It is obvious that you like settling for mediocrity considering you make excuses for BC all the time. They can do no wrong in your pie in the sky eyes. BC's motto is "Ever to Excel." It is not "Ever to be mediocre." A lot of BC fans are fine settling for mediocrity like yourself mod. However, others like myself and EB want BC to strive for excellence. We will criticize BC when it is warranted, but also praise them when it is deserved.

eagleboston said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
eagleboston said...

Guys, I go by facts when I make my provocative statements. If you take out Clemson and Va Tech, the combined won-loss record of our other 10 opponents is 53-66 or 45%. Let me say that again, 53-66. The quality of competition this year was horrific and that is why I made the claim that BC may be the worst 8-win team in America. In fact, I would argue this is the worst BC team since the 2000 team.

Having said that, this team beat expectations and if you are going to have a weak schedule, why not this year when the odds were stacked against BC? I am very happy with the 8 wins and this is an extremely young football team. They are only going to get better. Will this go down as a great BC team? Heck no. Did they defy expectations? Heck yes. Are better days ahead? You bet!

eagleinexile said...


Somehow I find a way to criticize the things I do not like about the program (Tranq & Shinskie) without coming across as a gloom and doomer.

Using subjective generalizations like "the worst 8 win team" without a pile of evidence will get you in trouble.

Just by going off 8 win teams that have a loss to a sub .500 team, a measure that is "worse" than BC's losses:

Ole Miss

These teams are only from the so-called BCS conferences, the big boys as people say. Your original comment did not specify that BC was the worst 8 win team in the major conferences, but rather the worst 8 win team in America.

From here we could debate based on further qualifications like UNC beating BC, or USC defeating a ranked team, something BC failed to do. But just stating that BC is the worst 8 win team because of close games and uninspired performances is too subjective.

And since you claimed sarcasm on the Stanford thing, I am not sure how to address that Stanford has no defense, and not a lot of speed. BC has a much better run defense than ND and most PAC-10 schools, so I think the "glass is half full" train of thought is that it would be interesting to see BC vs. Stanford.

Also, CT is dead on balls accurate about Boise. They give up huge chunks of yards and points to not good teams, but they score a lot, again on teams with not great defenses.

I have two possible courses of action for the Broncos. The first has them getting absolutely clobbered by Alabama. The other is more complicated:

There has never been a more deserving year for two undefeated teams from the other conferences to get BCS bids (i.e. there are no 1 loss teams from the big boys this year).

The rules state that the BCS only has to take 1 of them (TCU is ranked higher). If Boise gets snubbed, they would have excellent grounds to bring an Anti-trust suit against the BCS cronies, the Notre Dame rule would be scrutinized and perhaps a Playoff would be formed.

Dan said...

The new recruit has no stars because he graduated in '09 so you have to look at the 2009 profiles. he had 2 stars got some interest from our natural recruiting rivals NCstate, Uconn, Syr and Maryland. Decent size for a freshman 6-1 205 and according to the herald article today he was a good student too so he'll probably be our next overachieving 2star defensive player.

Speaking of schedules have you seen BC's line up for next year?

6 softies (Hofstra, Syracuse, UVA, Maryland, Duke, Kent State)

3 usual toss ups Wake, FSU, NCstate

and the only "tough" opponents are at home VT, ND and Clemson.

If ever there was a year to hit 10-11 wins next year looks like it.

Also, if/when Herzlich makes it back BC should really consider getting him and Keuchly some national preseason press with a SuperMan and Boy Wonder story. It would be good press and a nice recruiting piece.

BlockParty said...


i saw that schedule. nd wont be tough at home when jimmy, taint, and floyd go pro.

all we need is a qb to not turn it over. we'll have the o-line (only lose tennant?), montel, defense should be pretty good (need a line), need to replace apon.

who knows about fsu at doak. wf loses skinner? clemson loses spiller? man, the acc is kinda weak.

Dan said...


Clemson loses Spiller and Ford

VT is losing most of the talent that was left on their D.

ND will be a traveling shitshow.

These games are definitely winnable at home. I know this year's "home field advantage" was a mirage but I definitely feel the home crowds for big teams are way better than when I was there in the BigLeast days.

DL is a big need area. Scafe and Albright are great but are hurt more than theyre healthy. Hopefully this Quinn kid steps up and I really think BC should steal ND's incoming 4star DE Blake Leuders when the shit hits the fan over there.

Dan said...

I gotta imagine there is a Dlinemane or two on Northeastern that we could bring in and get some use out of.

BCNorCal07 said...

Dan, I was looking at his '09 profile and it didn't list any stars, but that may have just been the page I was looking at.

Man, that schedule is...favorable. We only get one of the league's three best teams and we get VT at home. Couple that with the relatively small group of senior starters lost and improvement should be in order.

Senior starters:
-Gunnell WR
-Tennant OC
-Giles DT
-Ramella DE
-McLaughlin MLB
-Bowman DS
-Rollins CB
-Apon K

Those are all of the senior starters. Many of them are going to be hard to replace and there were some other important contributors like Nick Rossi and Jeff Smith, but the vast majority of the two-deep returns. Intriguing.

Dan said...

Bravesbill said...

Eagleexile, let's clarify a few things. Number 1, my sarcasm was directed at CT's charade comment, not anything about Stanford. Number 2, I never said that BC was the worst 8 win team in America. Eagleboston said that. Number 3, I agreed that BC was ONE of the worst 8 win teams in America. I further claimed that BC was better than the 8 win mid majors of UCF, East Carolina, and Rutgers (Big East is a mid-major). I further said that BC would give Northwestern a run for its money. USC is infinitely better than BC; UNC clobbered BC; Ole Miss is a better team (just look at yesterday's results when worse SEC teams beat the ACC's best); and I would say Mizzou is better than BC as well. If you cannot recognize that USC and UNC are better than BC without qualifications, it's futile to even argue with you. You would almost belong in the Mod category at that point. Further, name 1 big win ND had all year. They had none. Plus, they had way too many close games against horrible opponents. It's not subject, just the plain truth.

mod34b said...


Funny to watch you try back off your "BC Sucks" comment. Not so BRAVE, are you? You're flailing, failing and sinking. bubble, bubble, bubble..

c'mon.. fess're whole shtick is a spoof? right??

CT said...

The charade I mentioned was Boise. Playing nobody in the WAC is orders of magnitude easier than playing nobodies in the ACC, which is orders of magnitude easier than playing in the SEC.

I don't find much merit in arguing whether BC is one of the worst 8-win teams in the country. With a new coach, a new QB--w/ a 6 yr layoff, to boot--two noted recruits transferring, conservative coaches, and bone cancer, I'm quite pleased with 8 wins. It doesn't matter if we are one of the worst or not. We may be. But that's also throwing these kids under the bus. They had to play with Road Shinskie.

Having said that, I'd agree with BBill's 3:19 post and certainly agree with his 6:41 post.

I guess the bottom line for me is...if anything can be called a rebuilding year, this was it. I don't think we're particularly good at anything other than giving Montel the ball and having Luke make the tackle on every play. Were it not for a miracle fumble vs. Wake, we'd be 7-5 and the tone of this conversation would be different still.

And we did in fact beat all the teams we were better than. I don't think we're better than ND nor do I think we're worse. That was a coin flip that we lost. What I do know is that during the TOB years, this would be the ceiling even with more talented teams. Finding Luke and Montel might push the ceiling a little higher. But I also think a weak conference is in large part a reason for optimism. That's good and bad. We might one day be a paper tiger or we might have some success and use that to get the guys in that we may not ordinarily get. Probably wishful thinking. Pretty lame for a cynic.

Oh and to put USC and BC in the same sentence wrt football, the program, the facilities, the significance, the symbolism, the cheerleaders, the silly. Stop.

I do think we can beat Stanford, though.

Bravesbill said...

Learn how to read Mod. I haven't backed off anything. Come back at me with hard evidence of facts instead of your mere assertions or ad hominem attacks. I see that you still cannot come up with any 8 win teams that I have not mentioned that are worse than BC. Boise St. is severely overrated, but it did beat a good Oregon team. TCU, on the other hand, is just plain dominant. I would love to see them get into the Championship Game against one of the big dogs.

eagleboston said...


I'm sorry I keep getting you into trouble.

Adam M. said...

So it's possible to be the worst 8 win team in America but not the worst 8+ win team in America? Technically all teams with 8 or more wins are 8 win teams because they have at least 8 wins. Temple and Ohio both have 9 wins as well. I didn't think we were just going by teams that had JUST 8 wins. I know we didn't exactly have a murderer's row of competition, but saying we're the worst 8 win team in America is crazy. Stop trying to defend your comments, because you got proven wrong and now you're mad because you always have to be right.

p.s. You forgot about 8-win Nevada, who got shut out by Notre Dame.
p.p.s. Saying we can't compete with Stanford is also crazy, considering Notre Dame competed with them and Wake Forest beat them. Not being able to compete, and actually not competing, however, are two different things.

eagleinexile said...


My bad for placing EB's comment at your doorstep. That being said, you choose to ignore the facts I put out and just stated that Mizzou was better with no real evidence to support such a claim. I did have evidence to the contrary, and the Big 12 was weak this year, especially the North.

Again with the over-emphasis. UNC "clobbers" BC? An 8 point game with less than 4 minutes left in the game? UNC did not play that great, they just did not play as badly as BC or rather Shinskie, and their losses to NCState, FSU, UVA proves they are not better than BC, they were just better than BC that day.

USC lost to Washington! That is disgraceful. With the talent they have that should never have happened. The equivalent would have been if BC had lost to CMU, and USC got blown out by Stanford, quite badly I might add.

Obviously, USC's program outclasses BC's in many areas, but the original comment was about the quality of this BC team, not it's history, facilities or recruiting classes. Based upon what they have done on the field this year, I am more than comfortable mentioning USC and BC in the same breath.

To be fair, ND did not have a big win, you're right, biggest win was BC actually, not sure what that proves, though, that BC lost to a bad team? Sure, they were still .500, and that's a fact.

Also, I'll give you the Ole Miss argument, but the evidence supports that the ACC as a whole is weaker than the SEC, which is true, but not that Ole Miss is necessarily better than BC. Ole Miss had a soft schedule like BC, but they did have a big win over LSU, so that one's yours.

Boise State is a charade, the curtain will come down on them soon, but I hope they don't even make it so that the curtain comes down on the BCS and what crony system it is.

Adam M. said...

Also, you are complaining about mediocrity...we finished 1 game out from winning the division, same conference record as last season, and won 8 a REBUILDING year. That's not mediocre to me. Like I said earlier, I'd be very disappointed if this team didn't win the league next year. However, you have to be smoking something if you thought this team was good enough to win the ACC this year.

Bravesbill said...

Adam, I'm claiming mediocrity of this program throughout the entire decade. There were many times BC failed to live up to its potential and choked away a potential BCS berth. Does Syracuse 2004 ring a bell? Good job at playing semantics as well. A 10 win team is not an 8 win team. And I will give you Nevada. Stanford did crush USC and beat Oregon (who was ranked in the top 10). As long as Shinskie plays like Shinkskie, there is no way BC is able to keep up with Stanford on the scoreboard.

CT said...

For what it's worth, ESPN has us in the Meineke Car Care vs. West Virginia.

They have FSU vs. Stanford out west.

mod34b said...

Bravesbill's mantra from his (failed) blog tells you all you need to know:


'nuff said!

eagleboston said...

This blog is a forum where divergent opinions should be welcome. It is no fun when everyone agrees and a little debate makes this blog interesting. However, I think the debate is getting a little too personal. I think everyone is bringing up valid and legitimate points and since these are opinions, there is no way to say someone is 100% right or 100% wrong.

Let's please debate these interesting topics without personally attacking people. Life is too short to get this worked up over football, which in the whole scheme of things, is not that important.

mod34b said...

eagleboston -- how high-minded -- and phony -- on your part.

Adam M. said...

BBill, I understand your disappointment and your displeasure with the 2004 team (I also was very disappointed when we threw that game away) and even the 2007 team (probably our most talented team of the decade), but don't take out your bitterness towards the athletic program and the past teams that failed at winning conference titles that they should have won on this year's team. Considering your negativity surrounding our football program, I bet this year's team exceeded your preseason expectations, did they not? Yet for some reason you are still dissatisfied. Again, if this team finishes 8-4 again next year and isn't in the ACC Title Game, I'll be right there with you in my disappointment and wonder why we can't get over the hump. This year, however, isn't the year to be disappointed in the team's performance.

Bravesbill said...


"With that said, BC did exceed expectations this year and had a pretty successful year. For the most part, they beat the teams they should have beaten (outside of ND), and lost to the teams they should have lost to. That is not too shabby in a rebuilding year. If BC had better coaching, they could have won another 2 games or so (ND, UNC)." I did not have high expectations for this team so I am completely happy that they won 8 games this year. They are not a very good team but still managed to have a successful year. However, I am not happy that BC football has failed to make it over the proverbial hump. This dissatisfaction also crosses over to the basketball team which has failed to get over the hump (with some really talented teams) under Al Skinner. And Mod, #1 why are you a douche to everybody who disagrees with you? Why do you take everything to the personal level? #2 What's wrong with the title of my blog? BC's football and basketball teams have been mediocre, never great the past decade. And I'm pretty bitter as a result of that and their failure to take strides to improve their programs. #3, As for my blog , it was doing fine up until the military called early this year. I haven't been had the necessary free time to put in the time commitment to keep it running through all the training and active duty service I've had to put in this year.

BlockParty said...

youre the worst.

hooah, USA 1LT here.

mod34b said...

Thank you for the comment Blockparty.

It is certainly amusing getting comments from an also-ran follower who was not even involved in the disucssion!