Friday, October 21, 2016

End of the Week Rant: Bates screwed up the basketball hire much more than football

I don't care if we lose by 100 on Saturday and Daz is fired at halftime. I don't care if Jim Christian stuns the world and wins the ACC this year. Regardless of how this all plays out, when we look back at Brad Bates' tenure, hiring Jim Christian will always be his most head-scratching decision.

First there was the "he's staying" "no he's not" aspect of the Donahue firing. That should have been the major clue that Christian didn't have the politics, the plan or the message set up prior to the end of the basketball season. Then he followed that up by hiring Jim Christian. A journeyman coach whose journey never even approached New England or ACC basketball. He was a non-factor to our fanbase and our recruiting base. Not good. Plus we all had to pretend that his struggles at TCU (private school in a major conference, pro sports market, etc) weren't applicable to his potential success at BC. If Brad Bates was going to make a borderline and highly questionable hire, there were safer more BC appropriate guys available. Schmidt, O'Shea, even [can't believe I'm writing this] Jim Calhoun!

Maybe BC's setup is difficult for an AD. Too much interference on some issues and not enough guidance on others. That's probable. Ever job and institution has its limitations. But good people adapt and still make the most of those situations. Brad Bates does not. The fact that Addazio wasn't his worst hire is proof.

38 comments:

knucklehead said...

ATL,
Jim Calhoun? Was flat out rejected in the 80's because he was a dirty coach. Some of your shit the last few weeks has been ridiculous. Too much periscoping.


knucklehead said...

Read the Boston Globe yesterday. Christian likes this years team. Talks some dirt about last years team also.

Shabby1011 said...

ATL you are way off based here. Clearly from your posts this year you have some allegiance to Daz. He has been a complete disaster and you have criticized but not completely pointed out all of the issues. In fact you have made reference from time to time that Daz is similar to TOB which is laughable. TOB was a really good coach, maybe not of the mindset to take the next national step but a coach we would all pray for right now. We would be a top 20-35 team in the country, year in, year out, and compete in games that matter. I would argue Daz is not as good a coach as Spaz, TOB is completely out of his league.

Ultimately Basketball matters but not 1/100th of football. Because of our hockey tradition (not one school in the ACC minus ND even has a hockey team never mind a revenue stream coming in from another winter sport) thus Basketball's importance will never be at the same height as other ACC schools.

While I would agree the Donahue fiasco showed a glimpse of Bates lack of power/conviction, Christian hiring is not nearly as impactful as Daz. Because of Daz we have a football game that will have 20k fans at it for the best defensive player in the NFL jersey retirement and a so called rivalry game. Because of it we have an AD at Iowa State of all places mocking our proud school and tradition.

I would argue with anyone that Basketball is much farther along then Football. One reason being it is just easier to get better quicker in Bball then Football because you only need 3 or 4 good players. I actually expect BBall to have a somewhat successful season and that Christian has managed his roster better then Daz. He has also recruited much better then Daz. Robinson, Turner, Bowman and Graves are all ACC level players.

Is Christian the answer, that is certainly debatable but not nearly to the extent that Daz is and will ever be the worst hire in BC sports possibly ever. When Spaz was let go that was a real opportunity to make an impactful hire for the good of the University and Bates made a disastrous decision.

Georgia Eagle said...

I have a simplistic but genuine question. Why can't we be the same caliber BB program as Villanova or Gonzaga ? Is it academics, geography, coaching, sports cultural, or all of the above? I'm really curious.

Shabby1011 said...

Easy answer...neither have FBS football program....every and all resources go to Men's Basketball including allow separate admissions standards for basketball players. Basketball budgets for both those schools double BC's. Few and Wright are paid significantly higher, recruiting budgets probably limitless and again they can get players in that they want.

There has been talk here that Wright wanted to come here when Big East changed. That is extremely far from the truth. Wright gets players in to NOVA that would never get into BC thus he would NEVER even consider coaching here.

Big Jack Krack said...

Which brings us to our Undergraduate Admission standards. While he is a great guy, the Director has been one of the real roadblocks in this process. We are very strict.

The Associate Directors can "star file" a small percentage of applicants they like but otherwise wouldn't make the grade (1 out of 100 applications, I think).

I wonder if we can "star file" applicants who are athletes? If not, why not?

Guido said...

Regarding Villanova , there is probably truth to your statement - Shabby1011; however, they have a new 5 star recruit (6'9" - 285lbs) that cleared admissions , but has been declared academically ineligible for the entire season. Clears admissions, but can not play at all this year. So to Villanova's defense , they do not totally just disregard academics - my guess is that he may now be recruited by the "Scumbags" @ Kentucky. As far as Wright is concerned , he has a salary of about $2.5 million (from 2015 stats), but they average probably 9,600 for home games. BC - what maybe 3,000. The attendance alone would easily cover his salary and I am sure advertising revenue and ALSO DONATIONS TO THE PROGRAM WOULD BE VERY SUBSTANTIAL. To think that Admissions is totally responsible for our situation in basketball is not realistic. There are other schools with academic standards that can attract very good BB recruits not the least being Harvard. You must start with a "QUALITY" name coach to be successful . Is BC willing to pay ???? If they did not spend so much $$$$ on losers and THEN TERMINATION PAYOUTS , things would be different !!!!!

chicagofire1871 said...

Frankly if the entire football team didn't go to class, I couldn't care less. 52 guys won't devalue my degree. Having a winning, championship caliber team will only enhance it.

Shabby1011 said...

Guido - your info sums up difference perfectly..Nova accepted a stud player who is not a academic qualifier..that means he has either an SAT score below 800 or GPA below 2.0 or some combination of both low scores..BC would never even allow Christian to have a conversation about a player with those standards..also I would think Wright makes closer to $4-5M a year after radio, Nike endorsement thru school etc..Chicago I agree 100%, give some kids a chance to get in both fball and BBall..doesn't effect school rankings at all

Elliot said...

I think your real point here might be that Bates is incompetent. That's 100% fair. That said, I believe this post will prove to be way off the mark on Christian.

1) Christian has been here less time than Daz yet shown improvement in recruiting each year, with this year's team looking to have an elite recruit in Bowman. Daz has in fact regressed each year. Sure Christian didn't win an ACC game last year, but in his BC timeline, that is a full year earlier than Daz failed to win a game. Maybe this basketball season will not be an improvement, but at this time there are a lot of positive signs.

2) You use Christian's very short stint at TCU as some kind evidence while not mentioning Das'z failure at Temple. True, Christian has never coached at remotely this level of basketball but he does appear to have had a strong reputation in the crappy MAC, leaving open the possibility he was simply an under the radar talented coach. Daz on the other hand had an established track record of failure at Florida as OC, and failure at Temple. In 2013, no one in the country was calling him some kind of football genius. Instead everyone latched onto to his energy and enthusiasm. His coaching IQ potential was for mediocrity. A potential he has not yet reached.

3) Making a strong football hire should have been much easier than basketball at BC. We are not and have never been known for basketball. The rest of the country barely noticed BC at the peak in 10 years ago. Football on the other hand has, relatively speaking, a proud tradition. There were more talented fb coaches willing to come here, they simply were not hired.

mod34b said...

Shabby and Elliot - AtL is not biased in favor of Daz. Disliking the Christian hire more than the Daz hire/results does not imply he likes Daz. Pretty clear he doesn't - But he is just more polite about it

ATL's bias is in favor of Ryan Day as next BC HC - the empty laminated resume man (stay tuned post Daz launch for that :-) )

Jeremy Brooks said...

Your posts have been absolutely ridiculous lately. Please start using your brain again.

Mr Greg bc79 said...

I've known the director of BC admissions - Mahoney - for over 30 years. He and I are same class(79).

He was a pompous d*ck 30 yrs ago and hadn't changed a bit. He is now instead in increasing bc's diversity than understanding that athletic success feeds academic success and the quality of the applicant pool This fool had presided over in the last few years a 20%+ decrease in apps. This idiot failed to realize that one of the us news criteria for 'exclusivity' is percentage of applicants accepted. Keep accepting the same number but reducing the pool makes u less exclusive.

Nothing will change until he and Leahy are gone.

Mr Greg bc79 said...

I've known the director of BC admissions - Mahoney - for over 30 years. He and I are same class(79).

He was a pompous d*ck 30 yrs ago and hadn't changed a bit. He is now instead in increasing bc's diversity than understanding that athletic success feeds academic success and the quality of the applicant pool This fool had presided over in the last few years a 20%+ decrease in apps. This idiot failed to realize that one of the us news criteria for 'exclusivity' is percentage of applicants accepted. Keep accepting the same number but reducing the pool makes u less exclusive.

Nothing will change until he and Leahy are gone.

Guido said...

Interesting comments Mr Greg bc79 - A friend had recently told me that BC admissions were declining and attributed part of that decline to the sorry state of the two major athletic programs. I was not aware of the criteria and "exclusivity" factor that you stated.

bceagle91 said...

BC added a 400 word essay on formation, which cut applications. The school still has nearly 30,000 applications for about 2,300 spots. The acceptance rate is still around 30%. Yield is another important number. By adding the essay, the school can screen out the kids who just check another box, hoping for a big financial aid award. I've taught at BC since the late 90s. The students now are clearly more talented than the students then as a group.

There are many criteria in the US News rankings. BC has fared well in those rankings for years. It's pretty hard to blame him for the failings in Athletics. We were very good in football and basketball for years while he was the Director of Admissions. Go after Brad Bates for hiring the wrong coaches. This isn't John Mahoney's fault.

Georgia Eagle said...

Omg I don't want us to become a one and done basketball factory like Kentucky or a corrupt football machine like Florida State.
I've been preaching this until I'm blue in the face: Stanford, Northwestern, and the Naval Academy. These are winning programs that still maintain strict academic standards. It can be done, guys. It can be done.

Guido said...

bceagle91 - I am not familiar with the application process at BC ,nor for any other prestigious University. I had simply stated that a friend had mentioned that the number of BC applicants had declined. Obviously, that does not seem to be factual if BC is receiving 30k applications on a regular basis. I do not think that Father Leahy really is vested in the college sports scene and probably would be content to see the College (BC) drop down to a FCS level in football or even drop many of the programs; however, he is very happy to collect the substantial $$$ coming into the coffers from the ACC and even more content that the College does not spend any of those $$$ to upgrade athletic facilities. Also do not know John Mahoney and never blamed him for the current sorry state of athletics at BC.

Knucklehead said...

There is no perspective here. The BC football program has been very good for long stretches since the school started playing football. The bullshit here makes it sound like we are Rutgers, Iowa State, Temple, Vanderbilt, Tulane or some other fucking school like Lamar who have never been successful.

The school is .580 overall and has a winning bowl record.

Screw Stanford(stole the BC game plan been good for 5-6 years. weren't even special when they had Walsh or Elway), Northwestern and Navy. Get back to being Boston College.

Fucking ridiculous.

Knucklehead said...

Jeremy Brooks strikes again.

bceagle91 said...

Guido, my comment was in response to what Mr. Greg had noted. My apologies for any confusion.

Mr Greg bc79 said...

BC admin troll.
Mahoney has forgotten BC roots. Legacies and local to Boston applicants are being decsiminsted agent in favor of inclusion. I attend several yeRs sgo a BC semi at led by Mahoney where he said BC was targeting Hispanics esp those in Texas and Cali. Proof is in the pudding v. National all BC is dropping in hs student perception. And also dropping in us news ranking. I don't like the us news methodology but it is the accepted standard.

Greg Robleski said...

Not suggesting that. Vast majority of BC grads benefit from bring known as a hi quality institution. But as mentioned above loosening standards for 10 fball and 3 bball players a year is not Armageddon. In fact the hi academic recruits BC gets still get tutors, academic support, etc. Not that different than bama. Except we expect them to take real classes (disclaimer: I took rocks for jocks along with Ruth, smerlas etc).

Greg Robleski said...

Look at his history. at Maquette he destroyed their very good bball program. Still not recovered.

Greg Robleski said...

This is down from the early 2010s hi of 38k.

Btw they don't read the essays. Its all about demo and social justoce. I was a >$20k a year donor until my son applied. I was told by admissions/Mahoney that for a white boy legacy from Cali to get a guaranted admission to BC I had to increase my giving to $200k a year. Since then I have stopped all giving to bc, although as a former player ( I played in the first nd game at Shafer) I will always follow bc football

Greg Robleski said...

This is down from the early 2010s hi of 38k.

Btw they don't read the essays. Its all about demo and social justoce. I was a >$20k a year donor until my son applied. I was told by admissions/Mahoney that for a white boy legacy from Cali to get a guaranted admission to BC I had to increase my giving to $200k a year. Since then I have stopped all giving to bc, although as a former player ( I played in the first nd game at Shafer) I will always follow bc football

Greg Robleski said...

Look at his history. at Maquette he destroyed their very good bball program. Still not recovered.

Greg Robleski said...

Sorry. On my phone.auto complete is a b@tch

Shabby1011 said...

As mentioned .. BC has forgotten who it is as a school, taking too many kids from left coast and wherever to get 50pts higher of SAT to "make it look like a more prestigious school" when all they are doing is ruining proud alumni base and athletic support..kids graduate and go back home and never come back..legacy and local candidates are being almost discriminated against.
Leahy needs to go, Bates needs to go and Daz needs to go. We have turned into a joke and it sucks.
We have a proud tradition in football and when you win in football it is best for the school, bottom line.
We are all aware of the Doug Flutie effect to BC and their was a recent article in Wash Post on the incredible positive impact Clemsons recent success has had on the school in every manner.

Georgia Eagle said...

Sonic, you and I have locked horns before. "Go back to being BC." What the hell does that mean? Going back to being BC is actually being like the Stanford's of the world - winning programs that maintain academic standards. We did it for years and can accomplish it again with the right reforms.

Georgia Eagle said...

Knucklehead

Knucklehead said...

Boston College was a very good school academically before Doug. His success did impact the University positively. However, most of the very successful BC grads in Finance(Lynch), Marketing(Connors) and Medicine(I know through family top rated Hand and Orthopedic surgeons from BC undergrad) actually graduated before Doug started.

Mahoney is doing what everyone is doing: imbedding Diversity and Inclusion as a top priority in their "people" decisions. It is beneficial to diversify based on economic background if the included individuals are of comparable quality(ability to perform within 10% of establishment person who is being disqualified) and character.

Mahoney should do what every other school with Power 5 football and hoops does. He should improve the Diversity and Inclusion of the University by means of the athletic programs. That, along pride in the University, is what the programs are there to accomplish. Instead there seem to be comparable admissions standard held between the "students" and the "student athletes."

Like I said before. Lower the standards for 7-10 football players and 2-3 basketball players for a few years to get the programs back to a competitive standard. Then raise them back.

Clemson sucks. No matter how much they improve on whatever level they always be second rate in South Carolina to South Carolina. Let alone a Boston College.

Like I said earlier. Boston College is in a trough athletically. Lets not act like we haven't been at the crest. I question the perspective here sometimes.

Clemson. Give me a fucking break. We beat their asses in the 80's and they took us off the schedule. We have beaten their asses plenty over the last 15 as well. If BC sold its soul for football it could be in the top 5 every year and fall short of a championship just Clemson or the rest of their ilk.

Knucklehead said...

Read the Boston Globe story on Connor Strachan. His father gives one of the best quotes, attributed to his son, from a BC representative/player that I have read in 25 years of following BC football:

“Connor always said if I’m at Harvard and BC’s playing USC on national television and I’m in my dorm at Harvard, I think I’ll jump out the window,” his father said. “He just wanted to play at the highest level.”

Knucklehead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Knucklehead said...

Georgia,
I don't know what you are talking about. "It can be done?" It has been "done" before and will be "done" again. Who cares about the d-bag programs you mentioned? I don't. I want Boston College to go back to the way it was when we were good. We can be like Stanford? Screw Stanford. Be Boston College.

Aspiring to be someone else is pathetic

Georgia Eagle said...

You and I are on different wave lengths. Dirt bag programs? Really knucklehead? Now ND which I admired growing up is a classic example of a dirt bag program.

Georgia Eagle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CT said...

The BC crest? Would love to know what that looks like. The tallest midget in the room?

CU sucks? Yeah ok. Mark Twain said it best. It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble...