Here is what the rest of the sports world thinks.
Bob Ryan's opinion is close to mine: this is how the game is played.
Gerry Callahan thinks Jags is a phoney.
Outsiders still think BC is overreacting.
Folks in North Carolina are just excited about the prospect of having Steve Logan back on the radio.
Eric Wilbur doesn't understand why BC would expect non-alums to view the job as the "end all, be all."
In basketball news, Skinner wasn't surprised by the UNC upset. Reggie Jackson came to BC to play in games like that. Sanders wants to build on his defensive effort.
Posts
43 comments:
I'm still trying to hold out on too strong of an opinion since I feel like there is so much we don't know, but I have trouble with the "this is how the game is played" talk. If it is true that Jags and Gene had an understanding that Jags was going to stay at least 3 years, and that Jags spoke to the Jets without telling Gene, that I'm not sure I want Jags here. There are plenty of things that other programs and coaches do that I don't want BC doing.
I like Jags and am not happy about this, but I have trouble being supportive of a guy saying one thing and doing another, no matter how many other people do it in this business.
Spaz......ouch
Gene can't be serious. The guy has given alot to the program but there is a reason he didn't get the job in 2006.
Gene needs to get Edsall from UCONN. The guy built that program from scratch and knows a thing or two about generating interest about a program in the middle of nowhere.
Or Phil Fulmer. Fulmer just got fired. He was a good coach, with a National Championship. He does not want to end his legacy that way. He owes Gene a favor and wants to remake his legacy. BC is the place. He can attract those players from the South we can't get.
And on another note, it is time for us to lower our academic standards for the football team.
Who wants to have the highest D-1 graduation rate?
Sports commentators only laugh when it is brought up during our games. A 96% grad rate vs. a 70% grad rate. Really what is the difference?
A lowering of standards will really give us a shot to get a title. Go do it Leahy!
Greg and Gerry Callahan have got it right. Bob Ryan's it's-wrong-but-everyone-is-doing-it attitude is 100% moronic and suggests to me that he may have a bright future in Boston politics.
And, as far as BC not being a final destingation, what horseshit. We're one of the most prestigious schools in D1 NCAA football, and, save for Jags' gaffe aganist Vandy this year, we finish in the Top 25 annually. Being the head coach of BC is better than being the head coach of the Detroit Lions or the Oakland Raiders (under current ownership). Add another $1M to the annual salary, and no one would question that BC is a final destination. BTW - Where are all our multimillionaire alumni at a time like this. The program needs a sugar-daddy who can supplement the salary that the school provides.
Mike & Mike on ESPN Radio have been talked about this for the last two days now and are coming down overwhelmingly on the side of BC...even Greenberg as a Jets. Their sentiment is that it is about time a school put its foot down and asked a coach to live up to the contract, which is a five-year deal after all despite the fact that it seems that BC really only expected him here for three. Greenberg apparently had a conversation with Gene during which he agreed to come on the air after the whole mess is sorted out, whenever that may be.
I for one am very proud of our school and our achievements in athletics while maintaining our academic standards. I am proud that when our athletes give interviews they are personable and intelligent. Brookline12 I think you will find you are in a very small minority that is not extremely proud of the standards our school sets and does not want to keep it exactly the way it is. We are a UNIVERSITY in case you forgot. A BC degree means something, and it should continue to do so. Don't be a moron and suggest we should devalue our school by lowering our standards. If we do it with athletics, why not then do it elsewhere? I never want BC to lower its standards. We have perfectly good players with it (Silva, Ryan, D. Knight, Herzy) so why sell out? Plus what would that guarantee? Syracuse doesn't have such high requirements, nor does Washington or Kansas State or Mississippi State....does lower standards mean success? No it doesn't.
What I don't understand is why people consider Jags a martyr or a saint in all of this. Where were all of these people when all the Saban and Petrino hate was being dished out? Now all of a sudden when a school puts its foot down on a guy who was clearly using the school (looking for an NFL job after 2 years at a school? Really?), they are horrible for not allowing him to "advance his career." Make up your mind national media! At least Petrino and Saban actually won BCS bowls (Saban won a National Championship!) before they left the school. Jags always said his goal was to win the ACC title, but is he really considering leaving a coaching job without even achieving that goal? While it may seem like BC is going to lose future head coaches because of this situation, it seems to work to what Gene wants to do: weed out the phoneys who will use the school as a stepping stone and hire someone who will stay true to the school. If Virginia Tech was willing to keep Beamer for so long, I don't understand why BC can't do the same thing with another coach.
I totally agree with Christopher here. I would much rather have a school with a modicum of academic integrity that can catch lightning in a bottle every so often (last year) and make a run than to have just another football factory. I just think that we need to be realistic about our place in that universe.
Edsall's an ass and i'll pass on a coach from UCONN.
Brookline 12,
I want BC to have the highest D-1 graduation rate. That is what makes us special and gives the program a touch of class and integrity.
It is unlikley BC will ever win a national championship. The last championship we won was in '41, back when players still wore leather helmets. The sooner BC fans accept that and look to more realistic goals, the better off we will all be. Our goals should be in this order 1) graduate our players, 2)run a clean, ethical program 3) Win the ACC every few years and get a BSC bowl bid 4)give players sound coaching so the best have a shot at an NFL career.
If a coach doesn't share the above goals, then we don't want them here. The last thing we need is some cowboy to come to Chestnut Hill and start recruiting a bunch of idiots that cannot graduate. The fact that we can win 9-11 games and still graduate our players makes them champions in my mind.
As far as a new coach is concerned, let's have an open and aggressive search. I know it is in the middle of recruiting season, but to just promote someone from within without a competitive search is a disservice to the university. If you conduct a competitive search and an interal candidate comes out on top, I'm behind them 100%.
I really have a problem with these repeated claims that BC should just accept its place in the world of 2nd-tier football programs and relinquish any thoughts about being a national champion or a place where 5-star players and coaches flock to. Where is your vision people? Where is your Ever To Excelness? Shame on you sissy-Marys. We're not some state school in podunkville, for God's sake.
Money and commitment are all that we need. We have the money, not we need to make the commitment. Twenty years ago, BC was financially deep in the red. Today, it's circa $1.7B in the black. With the acquisition of the Brighton Campus, BC more than DOUBLED the size of its physical footprint. It's now time to use some of that green to buy up the surrounding neighborhoods and heavily grease the pockets of Mayor Mumbles and his cronies. I picture a world in the foreseeable future where Alumni Stadium is a 90,000-seat beast and technological marvel and where BC has purchased 50% of what currently remains of that pretty place called Brighton. Slowly, but surely, BC can become one of the best campuses and cradles of football in the entire country, all of it done 6 miles away from one of the country's greatest cities. Are you with me? Charge!
Way to go, eagleboston! Excellent post.
I've been a B.C. football nut since my (and my husband's) freshman year in '70 and am thrilled and amazed at how far the program has come. That our players are intelligent and articulate is a source of great pride to me. The fact that B.C. football is consistently competitive, with occasional flashes of glory, is a considerable achievement for any team, and particularly in light of our standards.
There are plenty of bright, talented athletes out there (Catholic high schools down here in the South are loaded with them) and the right coach, who relishes recruiting, should be able to reel in some of them. I continue to have high hopes for ACC championships...and even, once in a while, something more.
I'm going to wait until I know more before jumping on either Jags' or Gene's bandwagon.
And who will fill that 90k behemoth?
Attractive Superfanettes in short cutoff denim skirts, of course.
We have already learned once the value of keeping Spaz during a coaching transition. Would he stay on, for a second time, if we hired an outsider? I'd prefer to keep him as defensive coordinator where we know he is great rather than risk promoting him to a job he might not be as good at, but considering how much credit he deserves for (1) staying on in '06 and (2) doing an absolutely fabulous job with our defense, I think we have to offer him the job. Frankly, I can't believe that Jags is getting NFL interest but Spaz hasn't been offered an NFL coordinator job yet. He's been loyal, he's produced big time results, we have no idea how he'll be as an HC, but I think we should give him a shot.
I really know little to nothing about Bicknell Jr. If he's someone who Spaz would want to work for, I'd support that too.
I also agree about the importance of our (relatively) high academic standards. I think that's overrated as an excuse for recruiting here. Sure, it necessarily costs a player here or there, but it also gains us a player here or there because its something fairly unique we can offer that many other top 25 schools can't. It's not as if top 50 recruits would be beating down our door but for our standards. Maybe its not as good a selling point as an 100k stadium, great weather, fans who travel etc would be, but its still a selling point, and something that we can be proud of.
Go Eagle1.
Jags = AWOL
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2009/01/bc_still_waitin.html
Eagle1,
A national title is not the only definition of greatness. I believe it is more impressive to win 9-11 games and graduate 94% of your players than it is to spend billions on facilities, win a national title, yet only graduate 50% of your players. If we can somehow win a national title, great. But I'm not holding my breath and I certainly don't think we should change our values to do so.
eagleboston:
Nowhere did I suggest that we relax our academic standards even a little bit to be successful on the field. I think you have me confused with Brookline 12. Nonetheless, I thank you for opening the door to my thoughts on this.
To be serious, as far as I am concerned, there is no better stat than graduation rate. Less than 1% of all NCAA players will make it to the NFL. The other 99% need real educations so that they can make it in the world. Amazingly, the NCAA lets many schools get by with 50% graduation rates and allow those schools to release into the world every year hordes of numbnuts, many of whom are not employable and some others who are destined for incarceration.
Most distressing is that some commentators that I otherwise respect, e.g., Mark May, poo-poo the graduation-rate statistic as if that were some big frigging joke. How does an apparently smart guy like that, a person of color no less, not immediately recognize that the attainment of a degree is the most important thing a kid possibly could do during his 4 or 5 years at a school? It's bewildering.
Everyone gets all worked up about football success versus academic standards. It's not a hard and fast rule that dumber guys are better players, so lowering the academic standards across the board would be silly. Yet there are solutions to our problem. Keep in mind that USC is ranked higher than BC in US News and World Reports every year, so obviously things can change. What I'd suggest is what worked for ND for so many years and then was strangely done away with when Lou Holtz left. Lou used to get 2 academically unqualifed players each season to bolster his teams chances. Even if we only allowed 1 player like this, think what a difference a 4 year cycle would look like with 4 game changers on the field.
Christopher: great point on academics. Lowering standards guarantees nothing. There are plenty of schools that lower their standards to the point of recruiting any drooling idiot who can run a 4.3, and many of those teams still suck.
BC does just great without sinking to that level. I want BC to continue to try for the graduation rate championship every year. And I don't care if asshat broadcasterdslaugh about graduation rates.
Having smarter players on your team and matriculating them doesn't cost a program wins. Stupidity does. Suspensions do. NCAA violations do. BC does it right, and I'm fiercely proud of my school for that.
Plus, what would lowering the standards change? It's not like we'd all of a sudden get a class of 5-stars. Most of those have egos matching the stars. They want to play in front of 100,000 people every weekend. They want to be flown to campus on private jets, to just plain OWN the town (or even STATE) and party like rock stars whenever and however they want, without any danger of repercussions. To be set up with sweet cars, hot chicks, and cool perks and never have to do a lick of work.
That's what they want. But BC can never promise them all that, even if we were to ease the standards significantly.
Regarding BC as a stepping stone, Adam brings up a good example: VT. Prior to Beamer, VT was a stepping stone school. Beamer MADE it a final destination. We need a coach to make BC a final destination-type school.
Eagle1 said: And, as far as BC not being a final destingation, what horseshit. We're one of the most prestigious schools in D1 NCAA football
Eagle1, name the prestigious D1 NCAA football schools.
BeantownBC85:
I'll take a crack at naming the "prestigious" football schools-
BC, Notre Dame, Stanford, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake and the Service Academies
Those are the only schools that consistently exceed an 85% graduation rate.
(And BC is probably the best of the bunch on the field- even in light of the recent bowl loss)
JAGS DOES THE DEED -- per Daily News
Also today, the Jets did, in fact, meet with Boston College coach Jeff Jagodzinski, who probably will be fired from his school, as BC officials have threatened. If Jags doesn't land the Jets' job - he's a longshot - there's a good chance he will land in Seattle as the offensive coordinator under Jim Mora Jr.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2009/01/jets-get-ok-to-interview-colts.html
I'll add my vote for academic standards. As a senior in HS, I didn't know anything about football. I chose my college for the school. I fell in love with BC the minute I stepped foot on the campus, and fell in love with football a short time later. As a 2000 grad, I started at a time filled with scandal and didn't know much about anything BC sports related really. I knew it was fun to go to games, and that was about it. Now, as an alum, I can look with pride at my alma mater, knowing that we have standards. Every year I am very proud when I see the graduation rate. Just this morning I talked to a co-worker who has a sr. daughter at BC. As we often do, we catch up on the BC news of the day (and this is all the way out in CA). She told me that she read about Matt Ryan spending the day after his season's end in the film room, studying and thinking about how to better himself. We've all seen him speak and he is very articulate. That's who I want my BC football (and all sport) grad to be. Not to say this doesn't happen in other schools, who am I to make assumptions, but I want to be sure this is a standard, not an exception. High standards point towards that.
I think Beantown's question had to do with topic of this thread, which is attracting coaches. Thus "presitigious" in this case means the kind of place that attracts football people based on program prestige alone. You can't attract great Physics professors based on an awesome English department.
We are not top tier in football prestige. And our insistence on actually graduating students means we likely never will be. And I'm with several here who are just fine with that.
Let us remember that just because our players have a 4.0 and graduate doesn't mean that they are saints.....
Do we forget the gambling scandel? Great Academic standards or not...Boys will be boys...and the same antics (ie. bar room brawls, date rape) that go on at big schools (ie. Florida State, USC) go on at BC. Therefore, let us not act like BC Football Players are Angels.
What then is the difference if we give 4 or 5 scholarships to kids that are not academically qualified?
Michigan graduates only 68% and not one is complaining on Wall Street or Main Street about that.
Using the motto we are proud of our standards is just a crutch to lean on when we lose in the ACCCG. We need to get away from this mentality to be good.
Probably time to ban Brookline from the blog.
Somebody should get on the phone with Phil Fulmer soon. Just a thought.
do you know how many scandals occured at Tenn while Fulmer was there, I doubt Leahy would even let him work in a dining hall.
Brookline should not be banned. He is entitled to his opinion and I believe he brings up some valid arguments to support his line of thinking.
Having said that, I believe there is solid consensus that BC fans truly value our academic excellence and appreciate that it extends to the football program. I'm proud to be an alum of a school that still recognizes these are scholar-athletes.
harrow-
I'm fully aware of the scandals that occurred during the Fulmer era at Tennessee, I've been a Tennessee fan for years. But as someone here pointed out, BC has had their fair share of scandals too. Phil Fulmer wins games and I want to win games. If ESPN is any indication, it seems BC needs to start looking for a new coach and looking south may be a good idea.
Actually, that was the first salient post by Brookline that I've read.
There's hope yet.
As for the whole "Academics vs. winning pct." argument: just take a look at the perennial powerhouses and tell me it doesn't play a part. I mean, come on. Stanford ain't exactly playing in the Rose Bowl every year. USC graduates about half of its team. Teams who don't do well and still can't graduate their kids...not good.
Ignore the title and don't:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/29/na-why-all-fans-should-pull-for-notre-dame/
We don't have to play the snob role in this argument, but as an Atlantan born and bred, there is a HUGE difference in standards b/t the meat markets down here and BC. I like it. It makes us the underdog.
The question should also be asked about the school's basketball team. Graduation rates are not good. Do we have two competing standards for our two most high-profile programs? Coach K has pretty abysmal graduation rates, too, even considering his early draftees. Surprising from such a good school, who, it seems, has made the trade-off between having the best basketball program of the last 20 years and getting those same kids a highly sought-after Duke diploma.
Well, it seems pretty clear at this point that GD is tired of the TOB routine, whereby his football coach starts looking elsewhere 5 minutes after getting to campus. And is pissed off he was misled--or at least wasn't told about the interview. Jags turned out to be not the man I thought he was. That's too bad.
From ESPN.com:
"Sometimes two people who really, really like each other can disagree on an issue. That's OK. Nothing wrong with that," DeFilippo said. "I really like Jags a lot and I've enjoyed working with him here for two years and he did a wonderful job here.
DiFillipo, sources say, thought that Jagodzinski was "disloyal" by not speaking with him before scheduling the Jets interview. One source said on Tuesday that Jagodzinski's decision to follow through on the interview made his fate "a done deal."
"I want a coach who wants to be at BC for a long time," DeFilippo said Monday.
Sorry for the length.
Definitely don't think Brookline should be banned. He just spices up the conversation around here. That said, I don't think BC should be doing anything with the academic standards for athletes. I honestly think that our system works. It's kinda cool that, more than at other schools, football and basketball players are more or less regular students who have to go to class (unlike BBall at Duke) and complete their course work (unlike football at FSU). If that's honestly what's preventing us from being the USC of the Northeast, keep it that way. It's not a trade that I'm willing to make.
And using "boys will be boys" as a justification for loosening admissions' standards, well, that's just kinda silly. Yes, our athletic department has had it's issues. No one denies that. Expecting more out of our athletes by actually disciplining miscreants is what enables us to stay above the fray and does seem to act as a deterrent. That doesn't mean that we should lower standards, because the two are really unrelated. You can be smart and still be a jackass or a criminal. Willie Williams seemed like a pretty smart guy before he enrolled at Miami. He got kicked out pretty fast, if I recall.
John,
There was a year Fulmer had over 15 arrests I believe on his team, they always averaged about 8 a year. Sure we have arrests too, but not double digits per year. Tenn was a rather dirty program. They would never bring a guy in like that. End of Story. Those universities are a joke, sports come first. You can get into Tenn, or Bama with a 2.3 in HS, I know people who have. On the subject of Southern coaches, what about the DC at Florida, he wants a job and can't get one down south because he is black and his wife is white. I think it would be a nice change for him up here.
its all over , jags to seattle as oc and spaz is in as hc ...
any source on that? As of an article published 20 minutes ago, Flips hadn't even heard about Jags. If its the case, that sounds like Jags would then have quit and we don't pay him. I love Spaz, but not sure about the hiring also. Would be nice to get an older college coach or someone done with the pros... a Kiffin type
i keep hearing that jags was putting out feelers to several nfl teams for positions....does anyone know the timeline on that? was that after the threat or was he jumping ship all along no matter what?
Gene wouldn't hire Bicknell. How could be trust a guy who bolted from Texas Tech?!?!
Someone posted the link to an article on a previous entry and it said that Jags was "tired of recruiting."
Huh?
After two recruiting classes? He did know that recruiting is in the small print of the contract, right? All that "we're looking for BC guys..." must've been a euphemism for "I lowered my handicap last week."
0:31PM, ESPN is quoting an attributed, official source from the BC office of media Relations as follows:
"It's just a matter of putting two and two together," Chris Cameron, BC's associate director for media relations, said Tuesday night. "He was told by Gene on Saturday that if he went on the interview he'd be fired."
ok, so we were used. All of that "BC guy" crap. I suspect thatwhen the dust settles we will learn that stuff began to brew after the Maryland game and before Tampa. I saw a noticeable change in the teams chemistry, and it carried over to the Vandy game. There was little closeness, few smiles, and "Jags" was by himself most of the time. I felt something was up, and now I suspect the players new that he was jumping "the ship." Good riddance, now we know he was just an opportunist and Gene was duped. What college coach doesn't understand the need to recruit ? I feel for the current players, and can imagine what is going through Herzy's head. They were wronged. Time to clean house, this years recruiting class is toast. Logan has got to go too. I say reward Spaz, his defense made the season.
Moving on.....
Can someone explain the reluctence about Spaz. I really don't know and I am asking. As stated above, the defense was the season.
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