Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Haden (and his tattoo) and Tuggle gone

This has been floating out there for a few days, but ESPN's Joe Schad finally went public with the news that Justin Tuggle and Josh Haden are both leaving BC. This is not really a surprise since both probably saw the writing on the wall. As much as we hope and encourage guys to pick BC based on the experience and education, the reality is that depth charts and coaching have a huge impact on their decisions. Both came to play for Jags and work in Logan's offense. Now things are different and my guess is that they will look to find better situations for themselves. I wish them the best of luck.

As for Haden's tattoo...ugh. As the past guest blogger Reverend Mike asked "does anyone know of a good tattooo removal place in Chestnut Hill" or maybe Gainesville, Florida?


Patrick said...

It reflects poorly on both individuals and the coaching staff that this decision was made mid-season. Period.

ATL_eagle said...

Patrick: I am not going to bury anyone for this. Stuff happens. They see that midseason they are not in the plans, so it makes sense to explore other options now why they have other options.

Adam said...

WEEI also in on the news:

BCMike said...

I hope Haden's injury isn't serious and he makes a full recovery.

I had high expectations for Josh and he showed some serious promise. I wish we would have had the opportunity to give both Haden and Harris a lot of carries, but Harris earned the right to carry the rock more.

I hope Haden is successful elsewhere.

Groundhog said...

makes sense. shinskie won the qb battle and with rettig coming in next year, tuggle's kind of in no-man's land. Losing Haden stings a little, but i'm on the Rolandan Finch bandwagon. - As for the tattoo, Haden can just have "SUCKS" tattooed underneath the logo, a la the SNL sketch about fighting graffiti with rudy giuliani

Raj said...

Tuggle leaving was a no-brainer after we stuck with a guy who continues to throw countless picks. If he didn't get in against V-tech/Notre Dame, well he knew where he stood. I guess he didnt take the suggestion of him moving to LB very well.

Haden was one of our prized recruits and has been plagued by injuries. Look for a big team to pick him up. That being said, I'm worried that we are all sipping on Ninja juice and am rewarding him for a stellar freshman season. I would much prefer a consistent running back, rather than a guy who hasnt put together two 80+ yard games in a row. And before all the harris lovers get on my case about how much our team has changed and we didnt have a qb, let's just remember last year we had unknown chris crane.
I like Harris, but i think sticking with him for 20+ carries while he averages around 3 a carry is a little ridiculous. Not saying this would have kept haden here, but let's hope we dont let any other talented players go because of this. BALANCE would be nice, giving our players a chance to compete on the field when things arent working is an option. This falls on the coaching staff. Maybe Finch wont be a big drop off from haden. I sure hope not

Matt said...

I question how good Tuggle actually is. If he can't earn PT ahead of Crane, David, and Shinskie then he clearly isn't very good. Not saying he can't develop but he had more than enough opportunitites to prove he was the man. Its not like he was Cassel at USC backing up Leinert and Palmer

mod10aeagle said...

Tuggle's not a D1 QB due to fatal flaws in his mechanics. Haden is not quick and elusive enough to overcome his lack of size/power.

That said, it appears the hire wire act is now not only without a safety net but also without that balancing pole wire walkers use. An injury to Shinskie and/or Harris and we'll be a bag o' bones in the center ring.

EagleinNYC said...

Honestly, I'm not really that upset about this… I don't think Tuggle is that good, and w/ Marsocvetra now, and Rettig/Bordner coming next year, there was no place for him…

Haden hurts a bit, because he was such a high profile recruit, but w/ Montel and Finch, plus another RB or 2 next year, we'll be OK…

I agree w/ ATL - I wish them both the best of luck elsewhere.

Erik said...

I guess this means we're officially "out" on recruiting Haden's younger brother!

I wish he would have stayed, he's only a sophmore and gets plenty of carries.

Eagle BC 01 said...

Does this mean Harris has to change his number again?? The 1, 2 punch minus the one?

Dan said...

In glancing at the recruiting board on Rivals, BC should probably do two things right about now
1) Tell Tony Jones (aka Haden clone) just go ahead and committ.
2) Put a heavy sell on Silas Redd. "Hey Silas, I know Penn State has the better name but why go all the way out there when you can move 1hr from home and immediately be the 1 in our 1-2 punch behind a veteran offensive line. Oh and let's be serious, Spaz is gonna be here a while whereas Paterno feels lucky every time he wakes up after an unplanned nap."

Adam M. said...

Raj...Haden got hurt during the NC State game, so that's why he didn't play in the Notre Dame game or throughout the second part of the NC State game. Not to mention, in the games where Harris really struggled, Haden struggled as well (Clemson 7 carries, 7 yards; VT 5 carries, 8 yards; Kent State 8 carries, 30 yards). I don't think the problem is giving Montel too many carries and not giving Haden enough. If anything, I felt Montel wasn't used enough last year and there were times where Haden was over used or not used in the right situation (remember that 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 in the bowl game last year?). Harris has proven over the past year and a half that he deserves the bulk of the carries and Haden hasn't been able to develop into the guy BC thought he would be (or who knows, maybe he doesn't fit into our offensive scheme?). Haden came here expecting to start and not necessarily splitting time with another back (I don't think he even expected to get beat out by Montel). It's understandable that he'd want to move and I don't blame him for leaving. It's a tough loss, but his numbers definitely weren't irreplaceable type numbers. All that said, best of luck to him and Tuggle wherever they decide to go.

Dan said...

I've read several places people saying Shinskie is committed to all 4 years at BC. Am I the only one thinking shenanigans when i read that? I know he's not Heisman material but given his age, size, and flashes of pretty decent talent, I can definitely see him bolting after 1-2 years if he continues to improve. Being a backup isn't super glamorous but it sure pays better than most jobs.

Alex L. said...

Spaz: the gift that keeps on giving.

That be unfair, but I'm saying it anyway. I suppose I can understand Tuggle leaving, but Haden? He had many good plays last year. If we had Jags and everything else was the same, I doubt Haden would have left. At least, he would have waited another year to see if he could get more playing time next year.

If Spaz/Tranq don't turn this around soon, they need to go. We don't need another TOB at the helm.

mod10aeagle said...

Wow. I like Shinskie and am very optimistic about his future at BC, but I'm no where near thinking of him having a seriou opportunity to go to the NFL (or CFL) early. Sheesh, we're talking about the guy who just threw three picks to a below-average ND defense.

mod34b said...

Too bad about Haden. He really did and could contribute. Seems like he really was a team guy and was excited about the season to start.

Was his injury such that he was done for the season? If so, leaving now makes sense. If not, he should've stuck it out for another 5 weeks. I am guessing the injury was part of his decision.

Dan -- you do know that no players gets paid in college, right? ("a backup isn't super glamorous but it sure pays better than most jobs.")

CT said...

I don't think either loss is that big a deal. As ATL said, the writing is on the wall. We're living in a Shinskie/Harris world. I've been waiting for the Tuggle transfer, but the Haden one surprises. A feature back he is not.

Too bad we went after the wrong branch in the Haden family tree. His older brother would've been the one to get. I like Haden's quickness and think he needs a spread system to generate yards...he's too small to go between the tackles all that much. I kept waiting for the home run from him...I'm still waiting.

I think he should consider Bethune Cookman or Berry College. Perhaps get a girlfriend with the right name.

Best of luck to both. Get those degrees, fellas!

Man, our graduation stats are taking a hit. Just kidding. Kind of.

Man, have some tumult this season anyone?

AguilaFan said...

All the comments focus on skill, playing time, potential, etc.
No one mentions academics.
It has to be considered until the real reasons are revealed. Were Tuggle and Haden good students? Could they carry the workload?

ps Bet it was the excellent turnout for NE and the shame of losing to ND.

Dan said...

Yes I am fully aware that college players don't get paid. Im also aware that NFL backups do. I was talking about Shinskie leaving after 1-2 more seasons with BC.

By no means am I saying Shinskie is gonna leave after this year. I meant 1-2 years from now. He has the size and strength now and just needs some more game experience to learn when not to force throws. He's not gonna need to be Matt Ryan accurate to make an NFL team as a backup. BC fans should know first hand that big QBs with big arms and so so decision making skills can definitely make it into the NFL (see Brian St. Pierre's 7 year career as a professional backup)

Dan said...

Plus is it really considered leaving early when you're 27 years old?

Michael said...

Haden wasn't very good. At least not for BC. I wish him well and hope he proves me & the BC coaches wrong.

Montel Harris is on his way to being a great back (ND game notwithstanding). Harris has breakaway speed, vision, balance, and for a smaller guy he breaks a lot of tackles.

mod10aeagle said...

Strange stuff today: "... Bethune Cookman or Berry College ... get a girlfriend with the right name ..."; speculation that Shinskie could leave in a year or two to pursue a job as a backup NFL QB ... really? Do college players, of any age, consider leaving early because they might be able to catch on as a bench warmer in the NFL? I'd be really surprised if the thought ever crossed the mind of a starting D1 QB going after his sophomore or junior year, unless they'd suffered a season-ending injury in the off-season.

I think the academics question is absolutely legit. Anybody know what they were majoring in? (They're already off the roster on the BC site.)

Big Jack Krack said...

Big decisions by these young men and their families. I wish them the best, knowing that it doesn't always work out when one leaves a program.

Personally, I never like to see this sort of thing. I think Haden had some great games in front of him. Tuggle didn't fit in with Tranquill (how long will the OC be here?)

Is there more to this story?

mod34b said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mod34b said...

Were Tuggle and Haden good students? Could they carry the workload?

I think the academics question is absolutely legit. Anybody know what they were majoring in?

Can't we do better than comment like this?

mod10aeagle said...

It's not bias, it's reality. Keeping up with academics while playing D1 football is incredibly challenging. If we were talking about Lars Anderson, would it be "bias" to ask the academics question?

CT said...

This is the wrong post to put this under, but I was curious about Central Michigan and their 7-1 record.

I looked at their opponents' current record and that opponent's most notable game.

Combined record of opponents played thus far: 22-37

Sat, Sep 5th, 2009 at Arizona L (19 - 6)
Current Record: 5-2; L 27-17 at Iowa

Sat, Sep 12th, 2009 at Michigan_State W (29 - 27)
Current Record: 4-4; L 15-13 vs. Iowa

Sat, Sep 19th, 2009 Alcorn_State W (48 - 0)
Current Record: 2-4

Sat, Sep 26th, 2009 Akron W (48 - 21)
Current Record: 1-6; L 31-7 at Penn State

Sat, Oct 3rd, 2009 at Buffalo W (20 - 13)
Current Record: 3-5; L 54-27 vs Pitt

Sat, Oct 10th, 2009 Eastern_Mich W (56 - 8)
Current Record: 0-7; L 45-17 at Michigan

Sat, Oct 17th, 2009 at Western_Mich W (34 - 23)
Current Record: 4-4; L 31-7 at Michigan

Sat, Oct 24th, 2009 at Bowling_Green W (24 - 10)
Current Record: 3-5; L 49-14 vs Boise State and L 27-20 at Missouri

CMU's Dan LeFevour: 70% comp., 212 yds/game, 16 TDs, 4 INTs, 112 car - 422yds (53yds/game), 9 rushing TDs

Averages went down with limited play vs. Alcorn State.

A dual threat indeed!

Dan said...

Ugh, last time I comment on my clearly ill-received Shinskie comment - I would agree that most sophomores and juniors don't leave to be an NFL backup somewhere, however, most sophomores and juniors aren't 27. At that point Shinskie will have reached his physical prime and have 2-3 years starting experience so he will arguably be at his best shot of an NFL gig, most likely as a backup. I know it's not a dream big scenario for most players but I think most 27 years old guys wouldn't mind riding the pine of an NFL team for $500k as opposed to not getting paid in school.

The end (until 2 years from now when he says he's leaving and I give you all a big fat I Told You So)

Danny Boy said...

Lets not forget that Tranquil refused to play Willie Parker at UNC because he didn't fit the system. Of our running backs, Haden is the most like Willie Parker.

Maybe Tranquil had a come to Jesus meeting with Haden and let him know that he wasn't going to be seeing the playing time he grew accustomed to last year.

If I had a coach who basically told me I wasn't going to play because I was faster than I was strong, I'd transfer too.

Raj said...

Haden has every right to leave, and I'll jump on the bandwagon and blame tranquill. He was good enough to get some respect from our coaches. I'm really worried about our depth. How's our recruiting class looking at RB?

In terms of Shinskie leaving, i dont think he'll be the starting QB for four years or even two years. I just dont think he's that smart, and hence why he makes bad decisions. We don't need our qb right now to be a hero, we need a game manager that people respect. People know if you throw different looks at shinskie, especially on the road, he'll fold. Being 25, he should be able to pick up things quicker, and if he progresses and gets us to the ACCCG and can compete with V-tech or Miami, i'll take back all of this.

But I'm on the Rettig for Heisman Campaign for now. (kidding guys, but you know where i stand)

Walter said...

No, Raj, I disagree. "Being 25" has nothing to do with it when you haven't been playing football for like the last seven years.

With Shinskie, we all have to constantly remind ourselves that for all intents and purposes he IS a true freshman quarterback. The fact that he happens to be 25 has nothing to do with it, unless you think that 25 year olds are just smarter than 21 year olds, and I don't think that's the case.

bcphilly said...

there are 3 things that a new (freshman) quarterback must learn to be effective ... 1)know when to get rid of the ball (throw away)...2)step up in the pocket instead of trying to run out of it ...3)go through your progressions and conversely don't lock on to one receiver ... that being said , it's not an easy task for someone at the D1 level what with the speed of the game and it's complexities ... however , at least one of these concepts should have taken hold by now more than halfway through the season , obviously none have as evidenced by the ND game ... i don't think it's shinskie's fault per se , tranquil is the qb coach in addition to being the oc ...wouldn't it make sense to bring in a proven qb coach or someone that played qb at this level , don't we have a plethora of qb alums hanging around that would probably be more than willing to help out ? ... from my observations shinskie has the tools and the talent to be very good , i hope the right tutor can come in and work with him ... not necessarily a knock on tranquil , but does the oc have the time and intensity to dedicate to this most important task ? ... just some rambling thoughts after being at the game and watching the replay twice ...

eagleboston said...

Take a chill pill folks. This is no big deal. When a new coaching staff comes in, the first thing they do is get the right people on the bus and in the right seats on the bus and the wrong people off the bus.

Harris is definitely the better back than Haden and I was very angry with Jags last year for not getting Harris the rock more. Tranq was smart enough to see who was the better back. Finch is a capable back-up for now. Sterlin Phifer is a redshirt and Andre Williams is supposed to sign in Feb. We should be fine.

Tuggle is a decent QB, but he was beat out by Shinskie and I think Marscovetra was passing him up. With 2 QB's expected to sign, it does not hurt for one of the current freshmen to go. Plus, we now have 2 more scholarship slots to bring in players that can help BC (hopefully a wide receiver and a defensive end).

Raj said...

to clarify- i think being 18 (freshman) and being 25 is a huge difference. And when you are playing a sport competitively in between, although its not football you should be able to retain things at a must faster rate.

He threw 3 INTs against ND, who basically needs INTs gift wrapped. They have 9 on the season No one is making freakish athletic plays on defense for them. I'm hoping experience will correct his decision making, because throwing into triple coverage is really not an option for any qb. I dont question his physical ability just his ability to be patient. (maybe that is coaching)

Im hoping he turns the corner this weekend at home and can win on the road.

mod34b said...

CT -- nice post on CMU -- very interesting and informative. but still hard to say how the game will go.

Home field is a big edge for BC. Let's hope for a repeat of NCSU!

eagleboston said...

BC Philly,

Might you be referring to Sir Douglas Flutie, Duke of Natick?

joet said...

Andre Williams ran for 384 yards on 21 carries and scored five touchdowns in a game a few weeks ago against a previously unbeaten team. He followed that up with 150 yards on seven carries and five touchdowns last week in only one half of playing time due to the blow out. He looks like he is going to be a decent recruit.

bcphilly said...

eagleboston ... you read my mind ...